The 3-person battle continues

[Rich]

Southeastern Wisconsin's three-person system featured in Referee Magazine

Can't believe in this day and age that many conferences still refuse to go to 3-person. Matter of fact, an assignor for about 30 schools has told me that a majority of his coaches have no desire to go to 3-person officiating, so that's pretty much the end of that.

It's frustrating having to work both systems. With all honesty, if I could build a schedule with 30-35 3-person games, I wouldn't ever work another 2-person game. But the 3-person games in my area are too few and far between to ever consider that.

Just a Tuesday morning vent before going to work a 2-person boys game with two schools with enrollments in excess of 1000.

[rockyroad]

There really is no valid reason for these schools to continue fighting against going three-person...all of the studies done (NBA, NCAA, various State Associations) have shown that three-person crews cut down on the rough play and clean the game up, making it more fun for the fans to watch. The reason thrown around the most often is cost, but even that does not fly as states that have gone to 3-person crews have shown that the cost increases are just not as severe as these people claim.

As for the coaches being against it...they just don't want to have their star players picking up fouls that the third set of eyes would be catching. It means they would have to teach proper defense, proper screens, etc., etc...again, a stupid and selfish reason.

My Tuesday morning rant with Rich.

[Treeguy]

We had a local league that went from 3 to 2 for a year or two to try and save money. They went back to 3 man this year. There was talk of keeping the girls to a 2 man, but there might have been Title IX implications.

[Smitty]

I dislike going back and forth as well. Here you go 2-man or 3-man depending on the size of the schools. The pay is the same for a varsity game, whether you work 2 or 3 man. Sometimes we work 2-man for the JV then add a third for the Varsity. That is a fun adjustment.

[shavano]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I dislike going back and forth as well. Here you go 2-man or 3-man depending on the size of the schools. The pay is the same for a varsity game, whether you work 2 or 3 man. Sometimes we work 2-man for the JV then add a third for the Varsity. That is a fun adjustment.

We're a bit different in CO. There's slightly higher pay for 2 man vs 3 ( for both V and JV/lower levels), but a lot of the schools ( even some of the larger ones in the cities) are either staying with doing 2 man for all levels, or doing like Smitty mentioned and going to a 3 man system for V games only. Definitely a fun adjustment.

[OKREF]

We have 7 classes here. B, A-6A. Only 5A, and 6A have 3 man crews, and they are required to have that by our state association. The coaches at the lower levels say they don't like 3 man, because they think stuff gets missed. They really wouldn't know since they have never had a 3 man crew. I officiate both and any sensible person will say 3 man is so much better.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by OKREF

The coaches at the lower levels say they don't like 3 man, because they think stuff gets missed.

Statements like that make me glad I'm not in OK now - Do they have clue what they're talking about at all?!.

Originally Posted by OKREF

I officiate both and any sensible person will say 3 man is so much better.

But you are referring to coaches here, so...

[rockyroad]

There was a study done by one of the eastern states ( one of the Carolinas I think) that showed that the first year of three person crews, the number of fouls called on average per game went up. In years 2 and 3, the average went down. They attributed it to two things: 1) the coaches and players cleaned it up knowing they could not get away with stuff away from the ball; and 2) the number of " marginal" calls - ones where we didnt have a good luck at the play but called something based on a partial look - went way, way down. The number of calls considered correct went way up.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

There was a study done by one of the eastern states ( one of the Carolinas I think) that showed that the first year of three person crews, the number of fouls called on average per game went up. In years 2 and 3, the average went down. They attributed it to two things: 1) the coaches and players cleaned it up knowing they could not get away with stuff away from the ball; and 2) the number of " marginal" calls - ones where we didnt have a good luck at the play but called something based on a partial look - went way, way down. The number of calls considered correct went way up.

I don't think it was us. We've been using 3 man for all varsity games for over 20 years. It's mandated by the NCHSAA.

Our local also works 3 man for all JV games in the one 3A and two 4A conferences that we work. How else can you prepare officials to work varsity?

[egj13]

We do all our Varsity games here in MT with 3-man. In some of the tiny gyms it is almost too many people out there but we do it anyway.

Last year I was doing a JV game in 2-man. The H coach was asking me to watch off ball screens so I said "I'll watch what I can and that is why we have 3 refs at the varsity level to catch that stuff easier". He looks at me and says "all having 3 refs does is make you all lazy. You had 2 refs for all those years and were just fine, now you all are lazy" I swear...

[SCalScoreKeeper]

everything here is done in two man until the quarterfinals of the section playoffs.there are certain tournaments that are done in three man but not very many.

[Pantherdreams]

Went to watch a friend coach at a tournament over the summer. Very high clalibre basketball. For some reason games in 1 gym we two man games in a another were 3 man. We went and watched a shoot around where the HC asked their assistant if they were playing the next opponent in a 3man game or two man. As soon as they found out 2 man they implemented/ went to a package they had where all screens were being set in dead zones/ difficult zones that they never even looked at running in the 3 man game.

Coaches . . .

I can get the cost thing for smallers schools (MS/ High School) in rurla areas that have to ship in crews but overall its just a better game with 3.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by egj13

We do all our Varsity games here in MT with 3-man. In some of the tiny gyms it is almost too many people out there but we do it anyway.

Last year I was doing a JV game in 2-man. The H coach was asking me to watch off ball screens so I said "I'll watch what I can and that is why we have 3 refs at the varsity level to catch that stuff easier". He looks at me and says "all having 3 refs does is make you all lazy. You had 2 refs for all those years and were just fine, now you all are lazy" I swear...

Well the game was much simpler when Custer County beat Missoula, 11-6, circa 1923.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

As for the coaches being against it...they just don't want to have their star players picking up fouls that the third set of eyes would be catching. It means they would have to teach proper defense, proper screens, etc., etc...again, a stupid and selfish reason.

This. I had a game last week (3 person) where a team's star player fouled out. According to the coach, he never fouls out and our crew changed the game. Two or three of his fouls were off ball stuff we never would have gotten in a 2 person game. Unfortunately it's back to 2 person tonight for me. 3 person still is not widely used here although more schools have adopted it this season.

[just another ref]

For the guys who advocate a different approach with a two man crew, setting certain screens in potentially dead areas, what is it that you're doing that you don't want the officials to see?