The 3-person battle continues

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Why?

I coached summer league stuff for my sons when they were playing in HS, and we had specific screens we set in specific area when we had two person crews. Not hard to do at all.

Why? Because any good crew is going to work better with 3 than with 2. There is no specific spot that is consistently a "dead zone" in either 3 or 2 man - there may be spots that are difficult to see at specific moments, but to imply there are spots that consistently don't get seen is really naive, and comes from a coaching mindset that assumes the referees are motionless - like cameras at the prison block. But in either 2 or 3 man, the referees are in motion.

[JRutledge]

I am blessed to live in a state where 3 Person has been used since 1997 for all playoff assignments. That turned the tide and those that did not go to 3 Person for everything soon did. And now I have only done a single 2 person game on purpose at the varsity level. Well not really on purpose, I was asked at the last minute to cover the game and I did even though in the past I had turned down assignments from that particular school previously (conference does not have a policy and somehow this school did not use 3).

I have never understood the position to only have 2 Person when if something happens the participants want to talk about safety or claim we should be watching everything. But hey, it is their liability on the line.

Peace

[tomegun]

There was one school in particular outside of DC (Howard or Montgomery County) that used to run an offense with a lot of picks. Every time I went to the school I knew that I had to avoid a lot of extra movement at the Lead so I could see all of the screening. I also have less time to talk to coaches in two-man games. I think there is more to take in on the court.

This past summer one tournament had the Oakland Soldiers versus Mac Irvin Fire - in an auxiliary gym. These are two of the top 17U teams in the country and they both will let you know it (with their mouths) from the time they walk into the gym. It was scheduled for two-man, but I worked with my friend and his campers came over that day to work the games at the site three-man. It was a tough game for three officials! The crowd started piling into the gym for that game the game before. A situation occurred where I came onto the court to "deal with" a parent, the tournament director was called in (by me) for a situation, the school cops were almost called to deal with a parent. But it was good basketball and fun!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why? Because any good crew is going to work better with 3 than with 2. There is no specific spot that is consistently a "dead zone" in either 3 or 2 man - there may be spots that are difficult to see at specific moments, but to imply there are spots that consistently don't get seen is really naive, and comes from a coaching mindset that assumes the referees are motionless - like cameras at the prison block. But in either 2 or 3 man, the referees are in motion.

I'm not a coach, but it would take me about five minutes to put together several plays that would allow a shooter to get open looks based on knowing where two officials' eyes would be. Just move a post player to screen for the ball handler in an area close to dual coverage. While this is happening, my best shooter would be getting free. A good shooter only needs half a step to get off the shot. The officials and opposing coaches would probably miss some of that action. In basketball, missing some of them with a good shooter can make the difference between a win and a loss.

[JRutledge]

Which Irvin brother was causing the problems in that game?

Peace

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I'm not a coach, but it would take me about five minutes to put together several plays that would allow a shooter to get open looks based on knowing where two officials' eyes would be. Just move a post player to screen for the ball handler in an area close to dual coverage. While this is happening, my best shooter would be getting free. A good shooter only needs half a step to get off the shot. The officials and opposing coaches would probably miss some of that action. In basketball, missing some of them with a good shooter can make the difference between a win and a loss.

+1

Easy peasy

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Which Irvin brother was causing the problems in that game?

Peace

I had to deal with one of their assistants one time. He looked shocked that I called him out and spoke in such an authoritative/combative tone.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I had to deal with one of their assistants one time. He looked shocked that I called him out and spoke in such an authoritative/combative tone.

Perspective is not that program's best suit. And the fact that many of the people involved coach programs at the high school level coaching and some situations in some recent incidents, their reputation certainly is well known. That is all I will say.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

everything here is done in two man until the quarterfinals of the section playoffs.there are certain tournaments that are done in three man but not very many.

Which validates the point of a better officiated game.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Which Irvin brother was causing the problems in that game?

Peace

Funny.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Which Irvin brother was causing the problems in that game?

Peace

Corey! Haha....... problem is watching her.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

As for the coaches being against it...they just don't want to have their star players picking up fouls that the third set of eyes would be catching. It means they would have to teach proper defense, proper screens, etc., etc...again, a stupid and selfish reason.

This. I had a game last week (3 person) where a team's star player fouled out. According to the coach, he never fouls out and our crew changed the game. Two or three of his fouls were off ball stuff we never would have gotten in a 2 person game. Unfortunately it's back to 2 person tonight for me. 3 person still is not widely used here although more schools have adopted it this season.

[just another ref]

For the guys who advocate a different approach with a two man crew, setting certain screens in potentially dead areas, what is it that you're doing that you don't want the officials to see?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

For the guys who advocate a different approach with a two man crew, setting certain screens in potentially dead areas, what is it that you're doing that you don't want the officials to see?

I don't think anyone is advocating it...but like tome gun said, there are dead spots in two man coverage and coaches take advantage of that knowledge.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Corey! Haha....... problem is watching her.

She is about to have another baby too.

Peace