First time to start the game with a technical

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The coach is part of the team, not separate from it. The penalty is a TEAM technical foul.
I agree with Camron.

Camron didn't say give the second T or don't give the second T, he said you could which is true. I'm just saying I wouldn't, that's all. If I felt it was done deliberately my answer could be different.

[Eastshire]

They are libel for both penalties. I would be surprised if I ever say this situation sub-varsity where both were applied.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

They are libel for both penalties. I would be surprised if I ever say this situation sub-varsity where both were applied.

Dont you think a lawsuit a bit harsh here?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Dont you think a lawsuit a bit harsh here?

Whoops. Liable.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Camron didn't say give the second T or don't give the second T, he said you could which is true. I'm just saying I wouldn't, that's all. If I felt it was done deliberately my answer could be different.

Very observant of you. That is exactly what I said...and meant.

As for what I'd do, I'd probably be accommodating of a team in such a situation. I've started games late because the visiting team got lost or stuck in traffic...and we just started late with no T's. We set the pregame clock to 15-20 when they walked in the door and went from there.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Very observant of you. That is exactly what I said...and meant.

As for what I'd do, I'd probably be accommodating of a team in such a situation. I've started games late because the visiting team got lost or stuck in traffic...and we just started late with no T's. We set the pregame clock to 15-20 when they walked in the door and went from there.

Me, too -- and what I meant with my clock running example. The "exception" would be if someone started the clock without knowing that the coach would be late, or if the clock was started because "the coach was in the parking lot" (and the names didn't get in on time), etc.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Camron didn't say give the second T or don't give the second T, he said you could which is true. I'm just saying I wouldn't, that's all. If I felt it was done deliberately my answer could be different.

Whether to penalize or not is not the issue that I have with your post. It is your reasoning. You essentially write don't penalize the kids because of the coach. I don't agree with that and am pointing out that they are all part of the team.
Now whether you actually penalize is a different story, but the rationale shouldn't be what you stated.

[packersowner]

I have seen a similar situation at the V level in the past two years - one time the bus ran into a serious accident that was holding up traffic, the other was because of road construction.

I would have hard time explaining to any authorities (AD, assignor, etc.) that we started giving out technicals because of these situations. This is still high school basketball and we have to use some prudent judgement in these situations.

Now with that said, your situation is a little different and possibly could have been avoided, but I am always a little miffed when some officials forget about having compassion for the circumstances. Its one of the reasons for my signature quote.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I have seen a similar situation at the V level in the past two years - one time the bus ran into a serious accident that was holding up traffic, the other was because of road construction.

I would have hard time explaining to any authorities (AD, assignor, etc.) that we started giving out technicals because of these situations. This is still high school basketball and we have to use some prudent judgement in these situations.

Now with that said, your situation is a little different and possibly could have been avoided, but I am always a little miffed when some officials forget about having compassion for the circumstances. Its one of the reasons for my signature quote.

I too think a bus crash or unexpected circumstances is warranted for some leniency. I'll be honest, I don't know why the coach was late, maybe I should have asked why before making a ruling. The opposing coach vocalized his concern about getting the underclassmen to another game across town. I felt like this was a fair decision, to charge a team tech for the book so that hopefully in the future this situation will be avoided. It didn't seem like an excessively harsh penalty and I am glad we also did not charge a second tech for not being ready to play. I feel like that was a good decision.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

The opposing coach vocalized his concern about getting the underclassmen to another game across town.

That might be his concern, but then he shouldn't have scheduled the games so close together. And, how does starting the game with a T make it end any sooner? If he's so concerned he can talk to the other coach and agree to shorten the game.

Your concern is only the current game.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I am going to the opposing coach and letting him know he is running late
As soon as he gets here we will get started. Just don't envision giving a T here.

I'd probably do the same, especially for a Freshman level game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That might be his concern, but then he shouldn't have scheduled the games so close together. And, how does starting the game with a T make it end any sooner? If he's so concerned he can talk to the other coach and agree to shorten the game.

Your concern is only the current game.

This

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That might be his concern, but then he shouldn't have scheduled the games so close together. And, how does starting the game with a T make it end any sooner? If he's so concerned he can talk to the other coach and agree to shorten the game.

Your concern is only the current game.

Three very valid points.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I too think a bus crash or unexpected circumstances is warranted for some leniency. I'll be honest, I don't know why the coach was late, maybe I should have asked why before making a ruling. The opposing coach vocalized his concern about getting the underclassmen to another game across town. I felt like this was a fair decision, to charge a team tech for the book so that hopefully in the future this situation will be avoided. It didn't seem like an excessively harsh penalty and I am glad we also did not charge a second tech for not being ready to play. I feel like that was a good decision.

The start time is not the time you are given with your assignment -- it's the time the home team gives you when you on site. If the home team isn't on the floor ready to play, how is this your concern as an official? They aren't ready, you don't play.

(Side question: Was there a countdown timer on the clock? Was it counting down?)

If I whacked a team every time they weren't ready to go by the posted start time, I'd have to call technicals 80% of the time when the JV game ran over. While that might be fun, it certainly isn't the right thing to do.

[MD Longhorn]

I would never issue a T for this. If the team is on the court, dressed, and then refuses to come out - sure ... that's what the rule is for.

But for some sort of unforeseen pre-game snafu? No.

If it was protracted, I might inform my assignor of what happened, so they can be aware ... perhaps it's an ongoing problem at that school - who knows. But penalizing the team in the actual game? No.

(And as to the visitors trying to play players in 2 games at 2 sites? They have to be aware that there are a great number of things that could cause the game to end late (including simple things like overtime) - if they intend to have players play in 2 different places on the same day, they assume the risk.)