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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:56am
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Last two minutes

So specifically the FIBA situation but all situations really. How tight do you call off ball stuff on inbounds in the last two minutes.

THis may sound bizarre and I know a foul is foul, but in the last two minutes on a dead ball defensive foul its an automatic unsportsmanlike = 2 shots and ball back.

I've worked with a variety of partners who handle it different ways. Some will let the defense get away with anything in the last 2 minutes because "they aren't calling an unsportsmanlike there" and since any foul has to be unsportsmanlike they won't. Other who will call the foul but wait until the passer releases the ball before blowing the whistle and making the call so its after the ball ball in in play.

I just see more and moer officials hesitant to make off the ball calls late in games particularly this siutation and find it leads to more and more phsyical play in the dying minutes as "players decide the game".
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
So specifically the FIBA situation but all situations really. How tight do you call off ball stuff on inbounds in the last two minutes.

THis may sound bizarre and I know a foul is foul, but in the last two minutes on a dead ball defensive foul its an automatic unsportsmanlike = 2 shots and ball back.

I've worked with a variety of partners who handle it different ways. Some will let the defense get away with anything in the last 2 minutes because "they aren't calling an unsportsmanlike there" and since any foul has to be unsportsmanlike they won't. Other who will call the foul but wait until the passer releases the ball before blowing the whistle and making the call so its after the ball ball in in play.

I just see more and moer officials hesitant to make off the ball calls late in games particularly this siutation and find it leads to more and more phsyical play in the dying minutes as "players decide the game".
We had one of those last week. My partner called a holding foul (good call) before the ball was inbounded. He called it unsportsmanlike and life went on. If someone complains, tell them to talk to the rule makers at FIBA. I don't write the rules, I just call the game.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
So specifically the FIBA situation but all situations really. How tight do you call off ball stuff on inbounds in the last two minutes.

THis may sound bizarre and I know a foul is foul, but in the last two minutes on a dead ball defensive foul its an automatic unsportsmanlike = 2 shots and ball back.

I've worked with a variety of partners who handle it different ways. Some will let the defense get away with anything in the last 2 minutes because "they aren't calling an unsportsmanlike there" and since any foul has to be unsportsmanlike they won't. Other who will call the foul but wait until the passer releases the ball before blowing the whistle and making the call so its after the ball ball in in play.

I just see more and moer officials hesitant to make off the ball calls late in games particularly this siutation and find it leads to more and more phsyical play in the dying minutes as "players decide the game".
Is FIBA's definition of dead ball different than in the rest of basketball?
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:24am
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Thought this was appropriate for this thread. This was in the 10/12 edition of the Referee Mag:


Officials often find themselves in a high-pressure environment and are constantly presented with unique situations, no matter the level. They work in an atmosphere that can be filled with emotion, speed, physicality often in a confined area and must make split-second decisions.
In order to perform at their best, officials need to be in an ideal performance state, which means being relaxed, calm, non-threatened and confident. Body and brain act differently when a person is happy and challenged versus angry and upset. The body and mind cannot perform at a peak level with any blockers. Being mentally tough and courageous are what enable us to effectively handle pressure, a consistent element in most any sporting environment.
Hope is a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen (or not happen). Courage is the ability or strength to do the right thing in a challenging situation.
Sports officials operate from a mind-set of being in charge so that when the impact call has to be made, it is not a stretch to call on our courage to make it. Courage is a big part of being an official, particularly in a unique situation or late in the game. However, the level of courage necessary is much easier to attain if you officiate as you go by calling it as you see it.
Being too tolerant or not reacting to fouls, penalties or violations puts an official in position of having to hope nothing similar happens for the remainder of a game. React to situations as they happen to avoid the “hope” mind-set. If you fall into that mind-set, immediately reset and get back on track. Do not let it slide.
If fouls, penalties or violations are not nipped in the bud, they become things that you have to manage the rest of the game and can harm your ability to focus on your immediate task. That doesn’t mean over-officiate by making everything an infraction. An official’s quantity of calls doesn’t equate to courage, but his or her quality of calls does.
Remain in charge with proper utilization of people and situational management skills. To be a top official, employ the following mind-set:
Stay calm, relaxed and poised under pressure, giving a relaxed but strong presence.
Be comfortable in your role.
Have passion and intensity.
Desire to make the big call.
Show confidence.
Always officiate from a position where you are drawing on courage and not hope.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Is FIBA's definition of dead ball different than in the rest of basketball?
No, but their definition of "unsporting" is, and includes what the fed calls intentional fouls.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:00am
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
No, but their definition of "unsporting" is, and includes what the fed calls intentional fouls.
Then I don't get the original post -- the ball becomes live when the ball is given to the thrower in -- at least in NFHS/NCAA rules.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:07am
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What the original post was referring to is quite different than NFHS.

In FIBA, in the last two minutes of the 4th (or OT), any defensive foul that occurs before the inbounder has released the ball is automatically called an unsportsmanlike foul. The penalty is two FTs and possession.

Thus some officials hesitate to call these fouls since the penalty is harsher than during the rest of the game. Panther Dreams referrred to dead ball foul but I Think he meant live ball but before the ball is released on the throw in.

Last edited by Jay R; Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 10:10am.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:42am
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Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
What the original post was referring to is quite different than NFHS.

In FIBA, in the last two minutes of the 4th (or OT), any defensive foul that occurs before the inbounder has released the ball is automatically called an unsportsmanlike foul. The penalty is two FTs and possession.

Thus some officials hesitate to call these fouls since the penalty is harsher than during the rest of the game. Panther Dreams referrred to dead ball foul but I Think he meant live ball but before the ball is released on the throw in.
Thanks.

I think I'd just call the foul, then. Not my problem that the rule is written in that way. If someone holds a teammate of a thrower in, what else can you do?
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:17pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Then I don't get the original post -- the ball becomes live when the ball is given to the thrower in -- at least in NFHS/NCAA rules.
I've heard a top official/partner (multiple state tourneys) here state that if there is a foul before the throwin ends that it has to be intentional. The game where he said it had about 10 seconds left and the team getting the ball out of a timeout was up 1-2 and the other team would be fouling. While it could be intentional, I let him that there was no such rule that made it automatically intentional.

There are a lot of people at a lot of levels that believe some incorrect stuff.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 02:09pm.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I've heard a top official/partner (multiple state tourneys) here state that if there is a foul before the throwin ends that it has to be intentional. The game where he said it had about 10 seconds left and the team getting the ball out of a timeout was up 1-2 and the other team would be foulding. While it could be intentional, I let him that there was no such rule that made it automatically intentional.

There are a lot of people at a lot of levels that believe some incorrect stuff.
I believe the NBA rule is somewhat similar to the FIBA rule in the last two minutes. That may be where some of the confusuion comes from.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
.....but in the last two minutes on a dead ball defensive foul its an automatic unsportsmanlike = 2 shots and ball back.

Just curious - where is the inbound spot, spot of foul or mid-court (or somewhere else)?
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
I believe the NBA rule is somewhat similar to the FIBA rule in the last two minutes. That may be where some of the confusuion comes from.
In the NBA, if the defense fouls before the ball is released for the throw-in, it's an automatic two shots for the offended player. If the same situation happens in the final two minutes of regulation or overtime, it's consider an away-from-the-play foul which means one shot for any of the five players on the court at the time of the foul and possession of the ball.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:15pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Just curious - where is the inbound spot, spot of foul or mid-court (or somewhere else)?
Inbound spot after the 2 free throws which result from an unsportsmanlike (or Technical) foul in FIBA is at the center line. The thrower has the option to throw in to either back or front court. New shot clock (24 seconds).
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:18pm
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Originally Posted by Twinfan View Post
Inbound spot after the 2 free throws which result from an unsportsmanlike (or Technical) foul in FIBA is at the center line. The thrower has the option to throw in to either back or front court. New shot clock (24 seconds).
Thanks. Now go have a big plate of poutine.
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Old Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:58pm
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Thanks. Now go have a big plate of poutine.
Hahaha - Noob! Always get your poutine in a bowl, you can get more gravy that way.
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