T or no T?

[Rooster]

Details:
I'm a 3rd year guy...
Last night's game is a boys JV and I'm the R...
Our state association says that in order for a player to wear a compression sleeve he/she must have an approval letter from on the association letterhead.
During captain's meeting V12 asks if he can wear his because he's got a cut and produces a doctor's note, I say no and suggest he get the trainer to wrap him up. He goes to his coach who comes out to mid-court to make his case. I say the same thing I said to the player, that without an approval letter on state association letter he can't wear it.
Coach: "All the other refs said he can wear it, even the varsity refs."
Me: "I understand that but if he doesn't have the letter he can't wear it."
Coach: "Are you a varsity ref?"
Me: "No."
Coach gives me what I felt was the "I thought so" look and walks away.

The game starts and it's a competitive game and both sides are pretty aggressive. V kids are pretty mouthy. For example they yell "And one!" (my personal pet peeve) and after the second time we warn that we won't put up with that anymore. Additionally we're getting a lot of "Traveling!" from their bench. Another warning of "No more of that." For the most part they respond. We had a drive to the basket and a kid starts to yell "And one." but stops halfway through his "one."

Sure enough there's a rebound and V54 grabs it, swings his elbow and makes contact with the opponent's head. I've got it all the way and call the POE intentional. I report and then turn to answer the coach's question.

Coach: "What did he do?!" He's a couple of steps on the floor, arms out, quite animated.
Me: "He made contact above the shoulders with his elbow. That's an intentional this year."
Coach: "That's not an intentional! No way!"
Coach to my partner (before I can get out of there and administer): "You gotta help him out here."
Me: Whack.

At the half my evaluator told me he didn't like the T, saying that I've gotta let the coach vent a little.
I felt disrespected by the coach...

Thoughts?

[rockyroad]

First thought: Nice job by you.

Second thought: You need to find yourself a different evaluator!

[Raymond]

For what reason are you supposed to let a coach vent?

I've been told that if we blow a call that we have to be willing to catch a little flak from a coach. But your situation does not fall in that category.

I called a T on a kid a few weeks ago for throwing ball at an opponent after a made basket. Coach tried to ask me about it as I was going towards the table to report it and I simply told the coach "this is not up for discussion".

[rekent]

I don't see a problem with it. Coach can vent without trying to show you up and openly questioning your competence.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

...I simply told the coach "this is not up for discussion".

This is definitely going into the quiver! Thanks.

[JRutledge]

I am not a big fan of "And 1" either, but I just ignore it. It just makes me not call a foul especially when there is hardly any contact or the contact is not a foul.

That being said, unless the coach was jumping up and down or going crazy with his arms, I probably would need a little more to call a T.

I also would not say anything about "That is intentional this year." The problem with the POE is they did not change the rule. Just tell the coach you had an intentional foul and it was for the contact above the shoulders and then it will be a lesser debate IMO. I think you want to tell him it was your judgement instead of getting into it being a rules change (because it actually is not a rules change, whether we like it or not).

I am only going to side with the evaluator if he saw the play or reaction. You are going to get oppositions to plays like that, just go explain it to them quietly and move on. Now if the coach cursed or got personal in that exchange then OK, I can go along with that. But it does not sound like anything the coach did was over the top. You have to sometimes learn that they will complain and what is acceptable by most.

Peace

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

First thought: Nice job by you.

Thanks, this is important to me. (Not that I'm after pats on the back... )
.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I also would not say anything about "That is intentional this year." The problem with the POE is they did not change the rule.

Great point.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am only going to side with the evaluator if he saw the play or reaction.

He saw both.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

He saw both.

I meant to say "and."

Peace

[ODog]

I think it'd be all right if you said, "It's a point of emphasis this year." So that way, when he goes *****ing to one of his friends on your board and quotes you on that -- as long as your fellow member isn't a complete hack/apologist -- he can say, "Well he IS right about that, Leroy."

I ALWAYS mention the contact-above-the-shoulder thing during the captains' meeting. Doesn't do much for the coaches or most of the players, but that's all you've got ... I think.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

Coach: "What did he do?!" He's a couple of steps on the floor, arms out, quite animated.
Me: "He made contact above the shoulders with his elbow. That's an intentional this year."
Coach: "That's not an intentional! No way!"
Coach to my partner (before I can get out of there and administer): "You gotta help him out here."
Me: Whack.

I don't think he said anything that deserves a T.

Where he was or how animated he was might be the greater issue for me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ODog

I ALWAYS mention the contact-above-the-shoulder thing during the captains' meeting. Doesn't do much for the coaches or most of the players, but that's all you've got ... I think.

I think the more you mention stuff, the more they want you to call something that might not be there. Why bring that to their attention. I would only say something that your area (and that could be the case here) is making sure everyone is enforcing and mostly administrative issues that have nothing to do with actual play calling. It would be like saying, "We are going to address handchecking" and the first act that looks like handchecking you are going to be seen as not doing what you suggested.

Not saying I am right, I just think you open yourself up the more you talk in that meeting.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the more you mention stuff, the more they want you to call something that might not be there. Why bring that to their attention. I would only say something that your area (and that could be the case here) is making sure everyone is enforcing and mostly administrative issues that have nothing to do with actual play calling. It would be like saying, "We are going to address handchecking" and the first act that looks like handchecking you are going to be seen as not doing what you suggested.

Not saying I am right, I just think you open yourself up the more you talk in that meeting.

Peace

Agreed.

I'm not a fan of a coach making the "you've gotta help him" comment to one official. That's a personal dig, and I have no problem with the T. He doesn't need to vent when the call is that clear and correct.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ODog

I ALWAYS mention the contact-above-the-shoulder thing during the captains' meeting. Doesn't do much for the coaches or most of the players, but that's all you've got ... I think.

Why?