First to touch?

[BigT]

Originally Posted by bigda65

I coach youth ball, Ref rec games, mostly umpire baseball. I bet the referee (he is a good friend).

My kid threw the ball inbounds, and went through my other players hands, He chased it to the sideline and knocked it back inbounds, he stepped back on the court and started dribbling. He blew the whistle and called oob. I asked why, he said you couldnt do that, so I bet him a million that he could.

all friendly, no words as I said he is a good friend, and I thought a pretty good official.

I have a questions. When he came back onto the court was the ball bouncing and did he start dribbling. Or did he pick up the ball and start a dribble? If he picked up the ball and started to dribble it is an illegal dribble not an OB violation.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BigT

I have a questions. When he came back onto the court was the ball bouncing and did he start dribbling. Or did he pick up the ball and start a dribble? If he picked up the ball and started to dribble it is an illegal dribble not an OB violation.

I have a questions on your questions.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I have a questions on your questions.

Why is it an illegal dribble? He had not previously dribbled and it had been touched by another player.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Why is it an illegal dribble? He had not previously dribbled and it had been touched by another player.

7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
Page 59 2011-12 NFHS Basketball Case Rule 7
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BigT

7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
Page 59 2011-12 NFHS Basketball Case Rule 7
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

Not enough information in the OP to say whether this case is applicable or not. If the player did not catch the ball, but rather just batted it back in, this would not constitute a dribble.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigT

I have a questions. When he came back onto the court was the ball bouncing and did he start dribbling. Or did he pick up the ball and start a dribble? If he picked up the ball and started to dribble it is an illegal dribble not an OB violation.

Depends on what the OP meant by "knocked it back inbounds".

Most of the time (in my experience) that's not a dribble. So, gathering the ball (after the player comes inbounds) is not ending the dribble. So the "next" dribble is legal.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by BigT

I have a questions. When he came back onto the court was the ball bouncing and did he start dribbling. Or did he pick up the ball and start a dribble? If he picked up the ball and started to dribble it is an illegal dribble not an OB violation.

He batted the ball back inbounds with one hand.

[bigda65]

It gets a little better today.

He called me today and left me a voicemail : He believes that since his momementum didnt carry him out of bounds, that the right call was OOB.

I asked him two questions in an email that I havent heard back from him yet.

1) In that situation, what advantage was gained when he left the court and then returned?

2) A nine year old kid chasing a loose ball toward the line, does not constitute momentum?

I could give two hoots in georgia about the bet, this has happened two weeks in a row and 4 different officials missed this, I just want them to get it right.

What other questions can I ask that can shed the light? help me out fellas!

If he believes that he left the court on purpose, should that be a warning or a technical? I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it should never be an OOB call, correct?

[Adam]

No, if he believed the kid left on purpose, that's a violation. No actual advantage required.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by Adam

No, if he believed the kid left on purpose, that's a violation. No actual advantage required.

I agree that it is a violation, but not an OOB violation, correct?

[Adam]

This is a lot of hassle for a third/fourth grade basketball game, and a lot of expectation for the folks who actually put a whistle around their neck and give their time to ref.

Originally Posted by bigda65

I agree that it is a violation, but not an OOB violation, correct?

No, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same thing. The result is identical.

And this is the portion of your post to which I was responding:

Originally Posted by bigda65

If he believes that he left the court on purpose, should that be a warning or a technical? I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it should never be an OOB call, correct?

Leaving the court on purpose is not a technical foul, and the only things that "should be a warning" are the four specified "Delay of Game" warnings. All other warnings are courtesies and should never be expected.

[bigda65]

No hassle at all really. Their time is not given, they are paid.

The problem I have now, is two fold,

1) at the start of this whole discussion, this official had no idea that you could save the ball to yourself

2) after he found out that you could indeed do this, he is trying to defend the call that was made, using the word "momentum" as a crutch to do it.

Unfortunately, this is the mindset in my area, unapproachable and never wrong and never willing to learn the game.

For me now, it is all principle no hassle at all.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigda65

It gets a little better today.

He called me today and left me a voicemail : He believes that since his momementum didnt carry him out of bounds, that the right call was OOB.

If that's true, OOB was not the right call. Leaving the floor voluntarily was the right call. And we're shooting.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If that's true, OOB was not the right call. Leaving the floor voluntarily was the right call. And we're shooting.

Shooting why?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

And we're shooting.

Are you confusing the violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason, with the technical foul for remaining out of bounds, and delaying a return inbounds, after a throwin pass is completed?