Charge

[canuckrefguy]

Can't really see whether defender's feet are completely outside the semi-circle - but let's assume they are.
Whatcha got?

[JugglingReferee]

PC in a Fed game.

Not sure about NCAA, as I believe this would be a secondary defender with a foot in the RA - which I think if anything, means a block.

The little shift by B1's left foot doesn't change the torso position, which remained stationary when LGP was established.

[OKREF]

Player Control, and the RA doesn't matter under NFHS rules.

[JRutledge]

I can live with the no call on this as the contact took place mostly after the dunk. So to me the contact is mostly incidental as it did not prevent the dunk from happening and the play was basically over. I guess I can see a block or charge call here, but I would need another look or angle to see if the defender was not moving sideways when the player went airborne.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I can live with the no call on this as the contact took place mostly after the dunk. So to me the contact is mostly incidental as it did not prevent the dunk from happening and the play was basically over. I guess I can see a block or charge call here, but I would need another look or angle to see if the defender was not moving sideways when the player went airborne.

Peace

Hogwash. The only contact after the dunk was B hitting the ground after being illegal contacted.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Hogwash. The only contact after the dunk was B hitting the ground after being illegal contacted.

Hogwash?

The contact or the action that put the player on the floor mostly took place after the ball was through the hoop. If you want to come in and say that is a foul, fine. I can see why it was not called and it might have been the judgment of the official that this was going to be a block and called nothing because the play was completed. Which would have made it incidental contact by rule if no one was put at an disadvantage.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Wow, you're right!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Wow, you're right!

I am really not looking for your approval either way. And I do not need to color the font to make that statement.

Peace

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Wow, you're right!

LOVE the blue font!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The contact or the action that put the player on the floor mostly took place after the ball was through the hoop.

I'm confused about this play, and I'm at work and don't have my books. In the case of a dunker, is the ball dead when it passes through the hoop, or does the ball remain live until the airborne shooter returns to the floor?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm confused about this play, and I'm at work and don't have my books. In the case of a dunker, is the ball dead when it passes through the hoop, or does the ball remain live until the airborne shooter returns to the floor?

It is dead, but for the purpose of a personal foul, by or against an airborne shooter, it doesn't matter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm confused about this play, and I'm at work and don't have my books. In the case of a dunker, is the ball dead when it passes through the hoop, or does the ball remain live until the airborne shooter returns to the floor?

I honestly do not care about the ball being dead or that aspect of the play from my point of view. The play by all accounts is over if you feel the defender was not in a LGP and the action did not prevent the dunker from landing properly or be under control and certainly did not prevent the dunk. For me this is simply an issue of advantage, disadvantage after you have determined the actions by the defender were legal or not as it relates to taking a charge. And this play is very, very close and not a slam dunk (pun intended) either way. And I call more charges personally than I bet most people here call them. I did see an angle today on ESPN from a half-court that did not help in determining for me if the defender slid over while the player went airborne. If you deem the defender was in a LGP, I am not even convinced I would call a foul that way either as the defender was not really displaces during the actual action but after the dunk as he has someone under him.

Peace

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I can live with the no call on this as the contact took place mostly after the dunk.

I'm replaying and freezing with my play-cursor at about 5.75 seconds and the ball is still in the shooter's hand and the knee to the jaw/chest has just happened and the defender is already moving backward from the contact.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I'm replaying and freezing with my play-cursor at about 5.75 seconds and the ball is still in the shooter's hand and the knee to the jaw/chest has just happened and the defender is already moving backward from the contact.

Is he moving laterally while the player was in the air?

Peace

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Is he moving laterally while the player was in the air?

Peace

Possibly, but I don't think definitively from the camera's view (defender's teammate is largely blocking the camera's view of the defender's feet). My point was simply that the shooter's knee to the defender, causing the defender to be moved backward and knocked down, happened before the ball was released/was in the basket - and that I don't see any other contact.