Possible CE, MN/MSU

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Since you "fixed" the problem before the FTs, it wasn't a CE situation.

In this game, the FT's were shot, so it was a CE situation (or at least a potential CE situation -- maybe that's your point)

No, the point is they applied a rule inproperly. They could have corrected it, but they did not.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, the point is they applied a rule inproperly. They could have corrected it, but they did not.

Peace

So if they don't correct it, it isn't a correctable error?

If a guy takes 7 steps with no whistle, it wasn't a travel?

[johnny d]

if they had corrected the error of awarding an unmerited free throw, they should have also ignored the foul on the msu player during the free throw as it was not intentional or flagrant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

if they had corrected the error of awarding an unmerited free throw, they should have also ignored the foul on the msu player during the free throw as it was not intentional or flagrant.

Not the case, do you know why?

[afsst]

Originally Posted by johnny d

if they had corrected the error of awarding an unmerited free throw, they should have also ignored the foul on the msu player during the free throw as it was not intentional or flagrant.

Incorrect statement...as soon as the ball came off the rim (and would not score) the free throw ended, so the foul would be counted.

[Camron Rust]

That was a correctable error that went uncorrected. The fact that it didn't get corrected doesn't change what it was.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by afsst

Incorrect statement...as soon as the ball came off the rim (and would not score) the free throw ended, so the foul would be counted.

And what actions would you have done to 'correct' the original error at this point?

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book.

I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul. Don't feel bad about doing it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by afsst

As soon as the ball came off the rim (and would not score) the free throw ended, so the foul would be counted.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book. I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul.

2-10-4: If the error is a free throw by the wrong player or at the wrong
basket, or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity
during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be
canceled.

This part of the correctable error rule always seems to confuse me. Could someone please provide a scenario in which a common foul would be canceled during the unmerited free throw.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2-10-4: If the error is a free throw by the wrong player or at the wrong
basket, or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity
during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be
canceled.

This part of the correctable error rule always seems to confuse me. Could someone please provide a scenario in which a common foul would be canceled during the unmerited free throw.

A1 goes to the line for an unmerited 1-1. While the ball is bouncing on the rim, A3 pushes B4 to get the rebound. The table now notifies the officials that the foul was B's 6th.

[afsst]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And what actions would you have done to 'correct' the original error at this point?

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book.

I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul. Don't feel bad about doing it.

I don't agree with making up rules to suit my personal opinion about a rule. That's a slippery slope. Were your partners happy about wiping out the rebounding foul? If so, now you have three officials on the court that have decided they will interpret the rules to suit themselves. Not a good situation.

[JetMetFan]

It was an incorrectly applied rule that created a CE situation...and isn't that how all CE situations are created?

The error - awarding an unmerited FT - could have been corrected until the first dead ball after the clock properly started.

The interesting thing is we don't see the moment the window closed on this clip. The clock didn't start on the foul after the FT, nor should it have since the foul was commited prior to any player touching a live ball while it was inbounds.

The next dead ball after the clock properly started came 28 seconds in game time later. Minn #55 shot - and missed - the front end of his one-and-one then there was a foul commited by MSU with 1:17 left in the half.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by afsst

I don't agree with making up rules to suit my personal opinion about a rule. That's a slippery slope. Were your partners happy about wiping out the rebounding foul? If so, now you have three officials on the court that have decided they will interpret the rules to suit themselves. Not a good situation.

I was the U2 so I didn't make the decision. But I had no problem with it. And my career didn't get halted by it.

And you never answered my question. In the OP's situation what is actually going to be done by the officials to correct the error?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And what actions would you have done to 'correct' the original error at this point?

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book.

I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul. Don't feel bad about doing it.

Instead of the foul on the rebound, let's say the rebounding team advanced the ball down the court and scored at which time the error was recognized. Would you have cancelled the basket?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Instead of the foul on the rebound, let's say the rebounding team advanced the ball down the court and scored at which time the error was recognized. Would you have cancelled the basket?

Willing to cancel foul if next foul occurs during rebounding action. And wish rule was written to legally do so. Otherwise in the case of an unmerited free throw what are we really correcting in the OP.

I'm not some 1st year JV official who is ignorant of the rule. Unlike some folks here I acknowdge when I'm doing something outside the letter of the rules and I'm willing to eat the consequences if there are any.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Instead of the foul on the rebound, let's say the rebounding team advanced the ball down the court and scored at which time the error was recognized. Would you have cancelled the basket?

Nope. All action after the FT would stand, including time consumed, points scored, and fouls committed. Then the ball would be put back into play at the POI, which would be a throw-in to the team that didn't make that last basket from anywhere along that end line.