Possible CE, MN/MSU

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by afsst

Incorrect statement...as soon as the ball came off the rim (and would not score) the free throw ended, so the foul would be counted.

And what actions would you have done to 'correct' the original error at this point?

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book.

I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul. Don't feel bad about doing it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by afsst

As soon as the ball came off the rim (and would not score) the free throw ended, so the foul would be counted.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book. I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul.

2-10-4: If the error is a free throw by the wrong player or at the wrong
basket, or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity
during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be
canceled.

This part of the correctable error rule always seems to confuse me. Could someone please provide a scenario in which a common foul would be canceled during the unmerited free throw.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2-10-4: If the error is a free throw by the wrong player or at the wrong
basket, or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity
during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be
canceled.

This part of the correctable error rule always seems to confuse me. Could someone please provide a scenario in which a common foul would be canceled during the unmerited free throw.

A1 goes to the line for an unmerited 1-1. While the ball is bouncing on the rim, A3 pushes B4 to get the rebound. The table now notifies the officials that the foul was B's 6th.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

While the ball is bouncing on the rim, A3 pushes B4 to get the rebound.

Cool. Since the ball is bouncing on the rim, and has a chance to go in, the free throw has not ended. I think that I got a question about a situation like this, but on a play where the free throw had already ended, wrong on a recent IAABO Refresher Exam. Thanks.

[afsst]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And what actions would you have done to 'correct' the original error at this point?

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book.

I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul. Don't feel bad about doing it.

I don't agree with making up rules to suit my personal opinion about a rule. That's a slippery slope. Were your partners happy about wiping out the rebounding foul? If so, now you have three officials on the court that have decided they will interpret the rules to suit themselves. Not a good situation.

[JetMetFan]

It was an incorrectly applied rule that created a CE situation...and isn't that how all CE situations are created?

The error - awarding an unmerited FT - could have been corrected until the first dead ball after the clock properly started.

The interesting thing is we don't see the moment the window closed on this clip. The clock didn't start on the foul after the FT, nor should it have since the foul was commited prior to any player touching a live ball while it was inbounds.

The next dead ball after the clock properly started came 28 seconds in game time later. Minn #55 shot - and missed - the front end of his one-and-one then there was a foul commited by MSU with 1:17 left in the half.

[BillyMac]

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It was an incorrectly applied rule that created a CE situation...and isn't that how all CE situations are created?

The error - awarding an unmerited FT - could have been corrected until the first dead ball after the clock properly started.

The interesting thing is we don't see the moment the window closed on this clip. The clock didn't start on the foul after the FT, nor should it have since the foul was commited prior to any player touching a live ball while it was inbounds.

The next dead ball after the clock properly started came 28 seconds in game time later. Minn #55 shot - and missed - the front end of his one-and-one then there was a foul commited by MSU with 1:17 left in the half.

I do not consider a completely kicked rule the same as a mistake in whether we shoot bonus or not. THe officials should know better and not even be shooting here.

And I stand by my original statement, this was a kicked rule. It could have been corrected under the CE rule or it could have more than likely been corrected by someone say, "Hey that was a TC foul." Nobody said anything obviously.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by afsst

I don't agree with making up rules to suit my personal opinion about a rule. That's a slippery slope. Were your partners happy about wiping out the rebounding foul? If so, now you have three officials on the court that have decided they will interpret the rules to suit themselves. Not a good situation.

I was the U2 so I didn't make the decision. But I had no problem with it. And my career didn't get halted by it.

And you never answered my question. In the OP's situation what is actually going to be done by the officials to correct the error?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And what actions would you have done to 'correct' the original error at this point?

This is one of most stupidly written and applied rules in the book.

I have this situation where the wrong shooter shot and we wiped out the rebounding foul. Don't feel bad about doing it.

Instead of the foul on the rebound, let's say the rebounding team advanced the ball down the court and scored at which time the error was recognized. Would you have cancelled the basket?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Instead of the foul on the rebound, let's say the rebounding team advanced the ball down the court and scored at which time the error was recognized. Would you have cancelled the basket?

Willing to cancel foul if next foul occurs during rebounding action. And wish rule was written to legally do so. Otherwise in the case of an unmerited free throw what are we really correcting in the OP.

I'm not some 1st year JV official who is ignorant of the rule. Unlike some folks here I acknowdge when I'm doing something outside the letter of the rules and I'm willing to eat the consequences if there are any.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Instead of the foul on the rebound, let's say the rebounding team advanced the ball down the court and scored at which time the error was recognized. Would you have cancelled the basket?

Nope. All action after the FT would stand, including time consumed, points scored, and fouls committed. Then the ball would be put back into play at the POI, which would be a throw-in to the team that didn't make that last basket from anywhere along that end line.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Nope. All action after the FT would stand, including time consumed, points scored, and fouls committed. Then the ball would be put back into play at the POI, which would be a throw-in to the team that didn't make that last basket from anywhere along that end line.

So essentially all you're doing is what if the CE was an unmerited free throw that was missed?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So essentially all you're doing is what if the CE was an unmerited free throw that was missed?

Yep. But if it were my game, it'd help save some of what little a$$ I have left with my supervisor, at least (and that FT shooter's percentage for stat purposes).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So essentially all you're doing is what if the CE was an unmerited free throw that was missed?

In this case, even though it was a CE, correcting it would have simply involved removing the attempt from the stat book. Irrelevant to us, but there's nothing else to do.