The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:54pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Possible CE, MN/MSU

Foul called in what looked like it should have been a Team Control situation, 1:45 left in the first half. They shot 1 & 1.

Anyone else see it? APG, a video would be great here.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 38
you nailed it - they didnt
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 261
Saw the play as well, and thought the same thing initially. Would like to see a replay though.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 38
I ran the DVR back. While a ball is in flight from a throw-in for Minnesota, a Minnesota player commits a foul.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:11pm
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
Ce

__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:38pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
That is a misapplication of the rules, not a correctable error per say. Now unless they noticed this in a timely matter it could be corrected under the CE rule, but this is not a typical CE situation because they were shooting when by rule it was a TC foul.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
"Awarding an unmerited FT" is a CE.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:04pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
"Awarding an unmerited FT" is a CE.
It is not my point. They did not have a CE, they missapplied the rule. They should know it is a TC foul you never shoot FTs on and should know this was a TC foul even if the player had grabbed the ball. They were on offense.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:14pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It is not my point. They did not have a CE, they missapplied the rule. They should know it is a TC foul you never shoot FTs on and should know this was a TC foul even if the player had grabbed the ball. They were on offense.

Peace
They misapplied a rule, if you want to put it that way, which resulted in a correctable error. What is your point?
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:15pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
They misapplied a rule, if you want to put it that way, which resulted in a correctable error. What is your point?
It did not result in anything. They play stood from all accounts. That is the point.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:19pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It did not result in anything. They play stood from all accounts. That is the point.

Peace
But it was still a correctable error. They just failed to correct it.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It is not my point. They did not have a CE, they missapplied the rule. They should know it is a TC foul you never shoot FTs on and should know this was a TC foul even if the player had grabbed the ball. They were on offense.

Peace
I think you're missing the big picture here. Everyone acknowledges the officials incorrectly awarded free throws. The teaching point here is the Correctable Error...When and How this error can be corrected.

Hypothetically, what if Mich St makes the first free throw and misses the second with the subsequent Mich St foul? After the whistle for the foul, if the officials realized they incorrectly awarded the free throws, they would take the point off the board for the first free throw but count the subsequent Mich State foul after the miss (as it was not part of the free throw). Minnesota would shoot free throw(s) if in the bonus or take the ball OOB if not in the bonus. But since he missed the free throw, the officials were saved...

Case play 2.10.1.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:24pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That is a misapplication of the rules, not a correctable error per say. Now unless they noticed this in a timely matter it could be corrected under the CE rule, but this is not a typical CE situation because they were shooting when by rule it was a TC foul.

Peace
Sorry to pile on, but awarding unmerited free throws as a result of a team control foul is a correctable error. Even if they didn't recognize it as a team control foul when the foul was called, they can still correct this within the window.

Doesn't surprise me when these are missed, BTW.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:08pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Sorry to pile on, but awarding unmerited free throws as a result of a team control foul is a correctable error. Even if they didn't recognize it as a team control foul when the foul was called, they can still correct this within the window.

Doesn't surprise me when these are missed, BTW.
And I think you guys are missing the point I am making. It is only a correctable error if they invoke that rule. It is a misapplication of the rules to even be in that situation. This is not like a guy that was sent to the line erroneously like awarding points he did not score or they gave a 3 points instead of a 2. This was simply a misapplication. Now if they caught it in time then they could correct the situation by that rule, but that is not what they did in the end. Heck you do not even need to invoke the CE rule at all if someone says, "Hey, this was a TC foul and we do not shoot these." They did not do anything but shoot FTs on a situation which clearly. I do not consider that invoking the CE rule, I consider that enforcing the rule properly. They did not come back later and then put the ball where they interrupted the play to correct the mistake.

This happen to me last post season where there was a loose ball foul called and I initially was going to send the fouled player to the line. Then my partner quickly came over and said, "They were in TC right?" The light bulb came on and we put the ball at the out of bounds spot. We did not use 2-10, it was making sure we applied the rule properly. That was not done here and 2-14 (I believe) was not used.

It might be semantics, but this is not a CE situation, this is a complete misapplication of a very basic rule. This clearly was in the TC window off a throw-in and the reason the NF rule was changed to clarify when a TC foul will be applied on a throw-in.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:14pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
I think you're right.

We're missing the point you're making.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1