Coach-Player misconduct: Get involved?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I dont give a rat's flying *uck what a coach says to his player in their huddle. If the people courtside can hear it, they can complain to the athletic director or other school administrator and they can decide how they want to handle the coach. Otherwise, it is just a word that the fragile freshman ball player you are so concerned about probably hears and says many times each day. Grow some *ucking thicker skin!

I happen to totally agree with this. I guess some here do not hear what kids say to each other very often at that age. They use that word much more than it is said to them by a coach, I can almost guarantee that one.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I happen to totally agree with this. I guess some here do not hear what kids say to each other very often at that age. They use that word much more than it is said to them by a coach, I can almost guarantee that one.

Peace

They also pull their pants down below their hips, but wait...we don't allow that on the court, do we...so that's a stupid argument and holds no water.

As someone who works with kids "that age" every weekday, I can tell you that they absolutely know what words are "wrong" and will use those words only I situations where they know they can get away with it. To have a coach use that language on a player is crossing a line, and if he does it loud enough to be heard by us on the court, he needs to be rung up immediately.

And the "here in my part of the country" argument against enforcing that standard is tired and overused.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

They also pull their pants down below their hips, but wait...we don't allow that on the court, do we...so that's a stupid argument and holds no water.

As someone who works with kids "that age" every weekday, I can tell you that they absolutely know what words are "wrong" and will use those words only I situations where they know they can get away with it. To have a coach use that language on a player is crossing a line, and if he does it loud enough to be heard by us on the court, he needs to be rung up immediately.

And the "here in my part of the country" argument against enforcing that standard is tired and overused.

Well considering that no one in my entire career, including the NF has never defined what language in specifically inappropriate or not, then I guess we will go on disagreeing out this issue.

And the argument is worse to say, "I do it this way, so we all must do it" is even sillier and played out point of view if you ask me.

I would think "freaking a$$" might be considered over the top to some too. I had a parent want me to T a coach because he said "God Dagit." I told the parent, "Not everyone believes in God." The problem is everyone is using a different standard for different reasons. Then again that is life and some of you really need to get used to that fact.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would think "freaking a$$" might be considered over the top to some too. I had a parent want me to T a coach because he said "God Dagit." I told the parent, "Not everyone believes in God." The problem is everyone is using a different standard for different reasons. Then again that is life and some of you really need to get used to that fact.

Peace

True, and I would not presume to advise anyone one way or the other here, but, apparently, in your area, you don't believe much in tact, either.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

True, and I would not presume to advise anyone one way or the other here, but, apparently, in your area, you don't believe much in tact, either.

That incident happen over 15 years ago and not in the area that I live now. But with that being said, how do you know I do not go to church or that I am involved in my church more than you or anyone else here? But that is why this conversation is overall stupid, because this has little to do with morals.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That incident happen over 15 years ago and not in the area that I live now. But with that being said, how do you know I do not go to church or that I am involved in my church more than you or anyone else here? But that is why this conversation is overall stupid, because this has little to do with morals.

Peace

I have to ask.

What does your church attendance or involvement have to do with jar's post?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I have to ask.

What does your church attendance or involvement have to do with jar's post?

And what does believing in God have to do with this issue?

Peace

[Adam]

I'm only guessing, but I would bet the areas where you'll get grief for calling this are far outnumbered by the areas where more trouble would come for letting this crap go.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I happen to totally agree with this. I guess some here do not hear what kids say to each other very often at that age. They use that word much more than it is said to them by a coach, I can almost guarantee that one.

Peace

I hear kids use it all the time. Doesn't make it acceptable. All the more reason I wouldn't put up with a coach using it on them in a freshman game within easy earshot of me. It's not the NBA, or even the NCAA. It's supposed to be an extension of school. Like someone else said earlier, would you accept a teacher using this kind of language in the classroom? What makes it OK here?

And johnny d, as amusing as your post was, I assure you this has nothing to do with the thickness of my skin, if you were talking to me. How would you feel about "that ref johnny d *ucking sucks!" from the coach to the players loud enough for you or your partner to "overhear?" Would you still not care what goes on in the huddle? After all, these fragile freshmen hear and say these words many times each day.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Maineac

I hear kids use it all the time. Doesn't make it acceptable. All the more reason I wouldn't put up with a coach using it on them in a freshman game within easy earshot of me. It's not the NBA, or even the NCAA. It's supposed to be an extension of school. Like someone else said earlier, would you accept a teacher using this kind of language in the classroom? What makes it OK here?

Again you are missing the point about acceptability. I see officials allow all kinds of things I do not find acceptable to me, you do not see me getting upset with them when they handle situations a different way. There are other things illegal in the rules and I do not even see officials address or try to correct, but inappropriate language all of a sudden has to be the big bad rule we must enforce?

Again, a Technical foul does not solve everything. Some things can be addressed in another way and accomplish the same thing. This is sports, not social justice arena.

Actually NCAA players in my experience are usually better behaved than HS players. Those officials at that level do not do or say the things I see regularly at the HS level because those officials will quickly put them in their place. You think kids are getting the the faces of Teddy Valentine, Karl Hess or Jim Burr?

Peace

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again you are missing the point about acceptability. I see officials allow all kinds of things I do not find acceptable to me, you do not see me getting upset with them when they handle situations a different way. There are other things illegal in the rules and I do not even see officials address or try to correct, but inappropriate language all of a sudden has to be the big bad rule we must enforce?

I'm not missing your point. I got it in your first post. I was describing how I would handle things in answer to the OP. I'm not getting upset with you for handling situations in a different way either. You handle them how you handle them. As do I.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, a Technical foul does not solve everything. Some things can be addressed in another way and accomplish the same thing. This is sports, not social justice arena.

I never said a technical foul solves everything. I said in this particular, narrow example that is how I would handle it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually NCAA players in my experience are usually better behaved than HS players. Those officials at that level do not do or say the things I see regularly at the HS level because those officials will quickly put them in their place. You think kids are getting the the faces of Teddy Valentine, Karl Hess or Jim Burr?

No, I don't. But as I've mentioned several times now, I'm talking about a freshman in high school level.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Maineac

I'm not missing your point. I got it in your first post. I was describing how I would handle things in answer to the OP. I'm not getting upset with you for handling situations in a different way either. You handle them how you handle them. As do I.


I never said a technical foul solves everything. I said in this particular, narrow example that is how I would handle it.


No, I don't. But as I've mentioned several times now, I'm talking about a freshman in high school level.

So I have to handle things the way you do so you can feel better? You are not confident in your own standards and ability to decide what goes too far?

I also did not realize the rule was different for the Freshman level. I guess that is a different standard too?

Peace

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So I have to handle things the way you do so you can feel better? You are not confident in your own standards and ability to decide what goes too far?

I also did not realize the rule was different for the Freshman level. I guess that is a different standard too?

Peace

Pretty sure I just said you obviously do things your way and I do them differently. I don't care if you do them my way and it won't make me feel better or worse. I don't work anywhere near you. I'm actually quite confident in my own standards and ability to decide what goes too far, like you I do it every game I work.

Do you enforce all rules the same for all levels? Call every travel you see in a middle school game? Your last two sentences are borderline silly, and you're obviously just looking for an argument.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Maineac

Pretty sure I just said you obviously do things your way and I do them differently. I don't care if you do them my way and it won't make me feel better or worse. I don't work anywhere near you. I'm actually quite confident in my own standards and ability to decide what goes too far, like you I do it every game I work.

Then if that is what I said, then why are we even debating this issue?

Do you enforce all rules the same for all levels? Call every travel you see in a middle school game? Your last two sentences are borderline silly, and you're obviously just looking for an argument.[/QUOTE]

Actually the general philosophy I take in officiating does not change during levels unless there are rules or specifics do do something differently. I call obvious violations. I do not work a lot of middle school games now, but when I did I would call what was obvious. The players have a different skill level so they are going to be smoother at certain things.

And I responded to the OP without quoting anyone. Not sure what fight I am looking for.

Peace