Coach on the floor?

[jritchie]

Had good/heated district game last night, 2 good teams. 4 pt game in 4th quarter, A1 and B1 coming up floor kinda bumped each other coming through traffic on fast break around mid court, when they got to 3 pt line they bumped again which wasn't accidental, Whistle double foul, then they get in each others face, whistle double T, I quickly jump in between players and other players come running up and grab own players to pull them away, the away coach from far end, comes running on floor, i would assume to make sure things were okay and no fight would occur. Question?

Assignor is at the game, comes in the locker room and asked why we didn't throw the coach? quotes rule 10.4.5 If a coach leaves the bench and enters the floor without being beckoned by the offical for any reason this is a flagrant technical foul and is disqualified.

I tried to explain that if there is a possibility of a fight a coach is allowed on the floor, he said we had it under control and he shouldn't of came on and should of been ejected or at the least T'd up.

1. what is rule for coach being allowed on floor to help with fight? am at work and can't look it up right now.

2. what do you all think? T warranted? ejection? We talked about it as a crew and thought that the coach was okay on the floor getting his players and pulling them back to his bench and that the T, would of definitely not been good for the game at that point of the game.

Visitors ended up winning by 4 and sinking 2 free throws with 2 seconds to ice the game.

[dsqrddgd909]

Rule 10-4-5


Leave the confines of the bench during a fight or when a fight may break out.

NOTE: The head coach may enter the court only if beckoned by an official. emphasis added

Case Play MTD, Sr. references below:
Rule: 10.4.5


10.4.5 SITUATION B:

A fight breaks out between A1 and B1 during a dead-ball and clock-stopped situation. The head coach of Team A rushes onto the court.

RULING: A1 and B1 are charged with flagrant technical fouls and are disqualified. No free throws are awarded for the double technical foul by A1 and B1. Since the coach was not beckoned onto the court by an official, he/she is charged with a *flagrant technical foul and is disqualified. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the table.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by jritchie

Had good/heated district game last night, 2 good teams. 4 pt game in 4th quarter, A1 and B1 coming up floor kinda bumped each other coming through traffic on fast break around mid court, when they got to 3 pt line they bumped again which wasn't accidental, Whistle double foul, then they get in each others face, whistle double T, I quickly jump in between players and other players come running up and grab own players to pull them away, the away coach from far end, comes running on floor, i would assume to make sure things were okay and no fight would occur. Question?

Assignor is at the game, comes in the locker room and asked why we didn't throw the coach? quotes rule 10.4.5 If a coach leaves the bench and enters the floor without being beckoned by the offical for any reason this is a flagrant technical foul and is disqualified.

I tried to explain that if there is a possibility of a fight a coach is allowed on the floor, he said we had it under control and he shouldn't of came on and should of been ejected or at the least T'd up.

1. what is rule for coach being allowed on floor to help with fight? am at work and can't look it up right now.

2. what do you all think? T warranted? ejection? We talked about it as a crew and thought that the coach was okay on the floor getting his players and pulling them back to his bench and that the T, would of definitely not been good for the game at that point of the game.

Visitors ended up winning by 4 and sinking 2 free throws with 2 seconds to ice the game.

JRitchie:

Your assigner was referring to NFHS Casebook Play 10.4.5 SITUATION B, and per rule he is correct. The HC, during a fight, is not to enter the court unless beckoned onto the court by the officials. That said, I would take a wait and see approach. When we have a volatile situation such as yours, the HC (and even the ACs) can be your crew's best friend. If he comes onto the court to take control of his players then I have nothing, BUT if he comes and does just about anything else (join the fight or gets confrontational with anyone) then he gets the big WHACK!

MTD, Sr.

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

JRitchie:

Your assigner was referring to NFHS Casebook Play 10.4.5 SITUATION B, and per rule he is correct. The HC, during a fight, is not to enter the court unless beckoned onto the court by the officials. That said, I would take a wait and see approach. When we have a volatile situation such as yours, the HC (and even the ACs) can be your crew's best friend. If he comes onto the court to take control of his players then I have nothing, BUT if he comes and does just about anything else (join the fight or gets confrontational with anyone) then he gets the big WHACK!

MTD, Sr.

That is exactly what we thought too! He said nothing to any opposing players or other opposing coaches, he just came on the floor gathered his players and got them back down the floor in front of his bench, BUT He was not beckoned! We were too worried about getting all the players away from each other!

[APG]

In that situation, coach is always retroactively beckoned in games.

Then again, since he's your assignor, you should have tossed the coach because he said he should have and he's your boss.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by APG

In that situation, coach is always retroactively beckoned in games.

Then again, since he's your assignor, you should have tossed the coach because he said he should have and he's your boss.

Agree, 100%.

If things are going in that direction and the coach is helping getting the situation under control there's no way I'm whacking him. Like APG said, he's "beckoned."

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by tjones1

If things are going in that direction and the coach is helping getting the situation under control there's no way I'm whacking him. Like APG said, he's "beckoned."

Just claim you beckoned the coach telepathically. Of course, for that to work, he'd have to have a brain.

[JugglingReferee]

The call shouldn't change based on the attendance of the assignor. If your local group has previously accepted that this case is a retroactive beckon, then no flagrant. With no previous group-wide policy, you have to go with the DQ.

Now, if your group wishes to use this incident as the catalyst for setting a local policy, then I say whatever you called is correct.

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The call shouldn't change based on the attendance of the assignor. If your local group has previously accepted that this case is a retroactive beckon, then no flagrant. With no previous group-wide policy, you have to go with the DQ.

Now, if your group wishes to use this incident as the catalyst for setting a local policy, then I say whatever you called is correct.

We didn't know he was even at the gym until he came in after the game, so we would of done what we did either way. We haven't really talked or had a policy about any such thing, but I believe that I like the "telepathically being beckoned" in situations like this!!!

[Loudwhistle2]

I would not have T'd the coach as long as he's trying to stop the fight. I see this like a real bad player injury, I don't T the coach when he comes flying out to attend to his player with a bone sticking out of his leg!

[ref3808]

That coach, assuming he's entered the court to ONLY deal with his players to get them under control, could be the best one on the floor to get a volatile situation resolved. He knows the personalities of every one of his players and will probably get the one with the worst temper first. (I suppose if you're a cynic you'll say he'll get his best scorer or defender first)

As far as I'm concerned he was beckoned.

I think there is an opportunity to have some dialog with your assignor here and if he says that in the future he wants the letter of the rule enforced than that's what you do if it comes up again. Personally, I think the wisest course of action is the one you took, but he's the boss.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ref3808

As far as I'm concerned he was beckoned.

That's how we handle it in my little corner of Connecticut, with the approval of both our local interpreter, and our assigning commissioner.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jritchie

We didn't know he was even at the gym until he came in after the game, so we would of done what we did either way. We haven't really talked or had a policy about any such thing, but I believe that I like the "telepathically being beckoned" in situations like this!!!

Thankfully the same situation didn't happen in another game with a different ruling!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jritchie

We didn't know he was even at the gym until he came in after the game, so we would of done what we did either way. We haven't really talked or had a policy about any such thing, but I believe that I like the "telepathically being beckoned" in situations like this!!!

Then hopefully this is a scenario that your supervisor has clarified with all the teams he services so you guys don't take unnecessary heat when the situation arises again.

[KJUmp]

His criticism of not T'ing and tossing the coach aside, did your assignor have anything positive to say about how you handled the situation?