Question from a Partner (after a T)

[Moosie74]

Boys JV game the other night. Late in the 2nd quarter partner calls a foul on A1. A1 comments rather loudly that's "7-1 (fouls) against us" Partner issues a technical.

Late in the 3rd quarter A1 is dribbling and is given a two hand push by B1. I call the foul on B1, A1 says to me in a conversational tone, "thank you sir" and goes off to the line for the shots.

My partner asks me at the quarter break what A1 said to me, I repeated his comment. Partner says no, "you've got to call the technical there, he was clearly trying to show me up".

I can't see any reason why I would issue a technical in that scenario based on a calm, conversational comment is worthy of any action on my part.

There are many other ways the player could have reacted but he just said that and went off to play the game.

Is there something I missed here?

[egj13]

Sounds to me like your partner needs to thicken the skin...

[Adam]

Wow, this guy needs to get his emotions in check. Seems to me the player was properly chastised by his T, and was being extra careful. I'd rather reward that.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Moosie74

Boys JV game the other night. Late in the 2nd quarter partner calls a foul on A1. A1 comments rather loudly that's "7-1 (fouls) against us" Partner issues a technical.

Late in the 3rd quarter A1 is dribbling and is given a two hand push by B1. I call the foul on B1, A1 says to me in a conversational tone, "thank you sir" and goes off to the line for the shots.

My partner asks me at the quarter break what A1 said to me, I repeated his comment. Partner says no, "you've got to call the technical there, he was clearly trying to show me up".

I can't see any reason why I would issue a technical in that scenario based on a calm, conversational comment is worthy of any action on my part.

There are many other ways the player could have reacted but he just said that and went off to play the game.

Is there something I missed here?

If I had not heard anything out of this player yet during the game, I would turn to them and tell them "It's going to get worse if you don't knock it off". Then let them hang themselves or shut up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

If I had not heard anything out of this player yet during the game, I would turn to them and tell them "It's going to get worse if you don't knock it off". Then let them hang themselves or shut up.

Maybe, I've probably got a T on this, unless it's obvious he's telling his teammates to stop fouling. Not a hard call, IMO.

[MD Longhorn]

You know... just the fact that your partner had to know what the player said to you speaks volumes about his insecurity out there. Kind of takes rabbit ears to a new level.

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by Adam

Wow, this guy needs to get his emotions in check. Seems to me the player was properly chastised by his T, and was being extra careful. I'd rather reward that.

That's how I felt. He responded appropriately. It was a good game and my partner's comment bothered me because I'm starting out and that was the first game I've worked with a technical foul issued but I don't believe in looking for future issues with the same player unless it's necessary and the player acknowledging a foul where he was the fouled player doesn't fall under anything bad to me.

I know my partner does have an issue with that because we worked together last week and he pointed out a couple of times how the fouls were equal or within a couple of each other.

As much as I hate the phrase, it is what is, that's how I approach a game.

[ref3808]

I more than likely issue a T for the first comment. As much for the "rather loudly" as the comment itself. There is a chance (albeit slight) that at the JV level, if the coach jumps in right away and tells the player to keep his comments to himself I might not issue the T.

I'm not issuing a T for Thank You Sir. If I truly believe he's taking a verbal dig at my partner than that's a horse of a different color.

I hear Thank You a lot from players, especially when it involves some sort of holding or illegal screening off the ball.

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by ref3808

I'm not issuing a T for Thank You Sir. If I truly believe he's taking a verbal dig at my partner than that's a horse of a different color.

I hear Thank You a lot from players, especially when it involves some sort of holding or illegal screening off the ball.

That's where I am it. It was not a glad someone out here knows what a foul is type reaction.

[twocentsworth]

neither comment/response calls for a T in my book.

[maven]

Complaining about the foul count: unless he's screaming like a banshee no T, tell him to knock it off (IOW, it does need to be addressed).

Follow up action with another official: that's nothing. Ever.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Moosie74

Boys JV game the other night. Late in the 2nd quarter partner calls a foul on A1. A1 comments rather loudly that's "7-1 (fouls) against us" Partner issues a technical.

Late in the 3rd quarter A1 is dribbling and is given a two hand push by B1. I call the foul on B1, A1 says to me in a conversational tone, "thank you sir" and goes off to the line for the shots.

My partner asks me at the quarter break what A1 said to me, I repeated his comment. Partner says no, "you've got to call the technical there, he was clearly trying to show me up".

I can't see any reason why I would issue a technical in that scenario based on a calm, conversational comment is worthy of any action on my part.

There are many other ways the player could have reacted but he just said that and went off to play the game.

Is there something I missed here?

When the topic of x-y fouls comes up (x >> y), I try to give a warning before the T. If the comment is quiet, I'll often give a reminder before the warning. But if it's loud as you mentioned, then I judge the game situation. It's possible I'll go straight to a T in this case.

As for the other case where your P believes a T is the correct call, I would politely tell him that this is not even close to a T in my game.

So no, you did not miss anything.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

When the topic of x-y fouls comes up (x >> y), I try to give a warning before the T. If the comment is quiet, I'll often give a reminder before the warning. But if it's loud as you mentioned, then I judge the game situation. It's possible I'll go straight to a T in this case.

I give coaches more leeway and warning in this case.

[icallfouls]

Not sure how loud this was, so it is hard to say if it was TF worthy, but I think the way we do it at the college level is a pretty good way to handle this. We are supposed to give a warning, then if it happens again, it is penalized. I realize that the directive is meant to apply to coaches, but I think it is equally effective for players.

As far as dealing with the player, I think having a heightened awareness isn't always a bad thing. For me, the player is right up against the line when making that statement. A simple warning usually is enough to get the player to refocus.

I have a friend who is a bit old school but believes in the silent TF. A player that is causing problems might find themselves, by the letter of the law, committing a foul or a violation on the next possession or two. Not saying it is what I do, but I have seen this in action. It is effective.

Officials need to understand that players and coaches are more emotional about the outcome on every play. Sure if a player/coach crosses the line, we must deal with it. I just think we need to consider the perspective of players and coaches.

[egj13]

Once again surprised at how many would T-up for the original foul count comment. Did he throw his hands up or something when he said it? Its a JV contest for one, he wasn't lying for two...I wouldn't have given a T but probably a look like "no more kid"