Throw or try ?

[letemplay]

In 5.2.1 (C) a "throw" from behind the arc is touched by an opponent inside the arc and then goes into basket is still a 3 pt goal. Would this still be the case if it was clearly a pass, not a shot attempt or even a lob pass? A guy outside arc tries to fire one chest high through the middle of a zone and it hits a defender in lane and goes through hoop is a three? 4-41-2 tells us by definition a try is an attempt to score by "throwing" the ball into teams own basket. Wouldn't, as next sentence says, there be officials judgement involved that it was a pass and not a shot? Yet, I see in 5.2.1 (B) such a lob "scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an actual try for goal".

[just another ref]

If it is obviously redirected by the touch by the opponent, it is a 2.

[Nevadaref]

4.41.4 SITUATION B:

A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it
hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through
the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and
below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are

scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

[Camron Rust]

There is debate on this issue and some will say that it counts as 3 based on the rule/case play you alluded to....that a ball thrown from behind the arc that goes in is 3 and that a "tip" by a defender doesn't change that.

That case is really talking about a player taking a 3 point shot where the on-ball defender (who is just inside the 2-point area) tips the shot just after the release but the ball continues in flight and goes in the basket...that is still 3 points and the touch the defender doesn't change that.

The lob case where the ball is thrown in the direction of the basket such that it goes in is to be 3 points whether you think it is a try or not. That case doesn't mention a touch be a defender inside the arc, so it should be assumed there isn't one. We are not tasked with judging try or not, just count it as 3.

Where things get muddy is the case (someone else can look it up...EDIT, looks like Nevada cited it while I was composing my post) that says a 3-point shot that falls below the rim and bounces off a defender and back in the basket is only 2 points....because the try ended when it was obvious it would not go in. The deflection back into the basket by the defender is no longer the original throw and it is no longer eligible for 3 points.

So, you still have a judgement to make, just not the same judgement. If as released, the ball might be able to go in, it will be a 3. If, however, there is no chance that it can go in as released but defender redirects it to the basket, it will only be a 2.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The two situations described in the OP is the result of unintended consequences.

Prior to the three-point FG being adopted, a try or tap ended when the ball was touched by another player, i.e., A1 attempts a FG with one second on the game clock and after he releases the ball, B1 touches (read partially blocks A1's attempt) a) before, or (b) after the buzzer sounds to end the period, and in both (a) and (b) the ball passes through the basket after the buzzer sounds to the end the period. Has A1 scored a two-point FG? No, B1's touching of the ball ended A1's attempt.

This rule lasted for one year after the three-point FG was adopted and the rule was changed to allow the basket to be scored: two-point or three-point depending upon where A1 released his attempt.

Personally, I was not in favor of the rule change for reasons that I will not go into now, but that is today's history lesson.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Mark, are you positive about the one year portion of your post?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Adam

Mark, are you positive about the one year portion of your post?

Adam:

I am 61 years old and this is my 42nd year officiating basketball. My knees have told me that they are not going to climb up into the attic to go through old rules books tonight (I have arthritis in both knees and had my right knee scoped in 2003, and I think I have developed tendonitis in it), but my fading memory wants to tell me that the definition of when an attempt ends did not change at the same time the three-point FG was adopted. It has been about twenty years since the three-point FG was adopted and I am a bald old geezer now.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

I prefer the NCAA interp on this (benefit of the doubt to the offense, but if the ball clearly would not have gone it without the tip, it's 2) and probably will use it in HS if it happens.