Approval of Final Score

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is, but when you look over at the table before you leave the floor, you are asking the scorer if they differ from what is on the board. When they do not indicated otherwise, you have verified a score that is equivalent to the board. You don't go over and count of the score in the book or even look at the #'s to see what they are. The scorer has their job and if they indicate that the score is not tied and their is no reason to disbelieve them, then the score is not tied. If the book later says otherwise, then that is irrelevant.

Wow.

Rule reference please?

Last I heard, the home book was the OFFICIAL score.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The home book was the OFFICIAL score.

More specifically, the running score in the home scorebook is the official score.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Wow.

Rule reference please?

Last I heard, the home book was the OFFICIAL score.

ART. 4 . . . The jurisdiction of the officials is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Once you're out the door, the game is over.

But what exactly have you approved when you left the floor? What you BELIEVED the score to be. You are approving one team as having won the game. Right or wrong, that is what was done and that is what the rule above says is final. What they tell you the book says or should have said after you're gone is not relevant.

I don't know anyone that goes over to the book after the horn...we certainly check at a timeout/break before the game ends and that should generally take care of it. We make eye contact with the scorer on the way out and if there is something different that they have, they must get your attention before you clear the gym.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

ART. 4 . . . The jurisdiction of the officials is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Once you're out the door, the game is over.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But what exactly have you approved when you left the floor?

Exactly what that text says--"the final score." Now if you wish to know what is the final score, then you must consult the rules book.

2-11-4

The scorer shall:

. . .

Record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed, and
keep a running summary of the points scored.

2-11-11 . . .

Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul,

each charged time-out, and end of each quarter and extra period, notifying the
referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall
accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which
permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the
mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the
official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the
referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the
official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall

remain at the scorer’s table throughout the game, including all intermissions.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What you BELIEVED the score to be.

From the above quoted rules, it is clear that the score is NOT what is on the board or what anyone believes the score to be, but rather is what is written in the progressive team totals of the official (home) scorebook.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You are approving one team as having won the game. Right or wrong, that is what was done and that is what the rule above says is final.

That's not what the rule says. Don't twist the words. The rule which you quoted simply tells us when the game is officially over. It could mistakenly be declared over, which is the case when the score is tied. The rule which says which team has won the game is 5-3, and it states that the winning team is the one which has accumulated the greater number of
points when the game ends. Points aren't accumulated by being posted on the scoreboard. They are what is written/marked in the official scorebook. So if neither team has a greater number of points therein when the game ends, then we can't just declare a winner. That isn't one of the assigned duties of the referee in rule 2.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What they tell you the book says or should have said after you're gone is not relevant.

Not only is it relevant, but it is the determining factor BY RULE.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't know anyone that goes over to the book after the horn...we certainly check at a timeout/break before the game ends and that should generally take care of it. We make eye contact with the scorer on the way out and if there is something different that they have, they must get your attention before you clear the gym.

That's the same process used in my area. So now what do we do in the situation under discussion?

It seems to me that we have a premature ending of the game that would nicely fit under the following rule:

5-4-3 . . .

Whenever a game is interrupted because of events beyond the

control of the responsible administrative authorities, it shall be continued from
the point of interruption unless the teams agree to terminate the game with the
existing score, or there are conference, league or state association rules to cover

the situation.

[OKREF]

This is a tough one. It should have brought to your attention prior to you leaving the visual confines of the court, once that happens the officials can't change anything. It seems that the state association will have to get involved.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yep.


Exactly what that text says--"the final score." Now if you wish to know what is the final score, then you must consult the rules book.

2-11-4

The scorer shall:

. . .

Record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed, and
keep a running summary of the points scored.

2-11-11 . . .

Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul,

each charged time-out, and end of each quarter and extra period, notifying the
referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall
accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which
permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the
mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the
official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the
referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the
official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall

remain at the scorer’s table throughout the game, including all intermissions.



From the above quoted rules, it is clear that the score is NOT what is on the board or what anyone believes the score to be, but rather is what is written in the progressive team totals of the official (home) scorebook.


That's not what the rule says. Don't twist the words. The rule which you quoted simply tells us when the game is officially over. It could mistakenly be declared over, which is the case when the score is tied. The rule which says which team has won the game is 5-3, and it states that the winning team is the one which has accumulated the greater number of
points when the game ends. Points aren't accumulated by being posted on the scoreboard. They are what is written/marked in the official scorebook. So if neither team has a greater number of points therein when the game ends, then we can't just declare a winner. That isn't one of the assigned duties of the referee in rule 2.



Not only is it relevant, but it is the determining factor BY RULE.



That's the same process used in my area. So now what do we do in the situation under discussion?

It seems to me that we have a premature ending of the game that would nicely fit under the following rule:

5-4-3 . . .

Whenever a game is interrupted because of events beyond the

control of the responsible administrative authorities, it shall be continued from
the point of interruption unless the teams agree to terminate the game with the
existing score, or there are conference, league or state association rules to cover

the situation.

All nice but the fundamental element is that the game is over. The state may certainly step in and declare something to be different but none of what you have said cancels the fact that the officials jurisdiction has ended.

As for your last citation, that is referring to power outages, fires, tornadoes, riots, and other kinds of external events that cause the game to be stopped. It isn't intended to be used to correct an error by the officials in declaring the wrong final score.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

All nice but the fundamental element is that the game is over. The state may certainly step in and declare something to be different but none of what you have said cancels the fact that the officials jurisdiction has ended.

Quite true, and precisely why I agreed with this previous post.
The only way that the game officials should return to the court and continue the game is if they have first consulted with someone from the governing authority such as the state association.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

My opinion on this is that you've approved the official score, which is recorded in the official scorebook. That means you allowed the game to end in a tie. (I don't mean that to be accusatory; it's just the fact. Maybe the scorers screwed you or whatever.) The state association will now decide how/if to break the tie.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As for your last citation, that is referring to power outages, fires, tornadoes, riots, and other kinds of external events that cause the game to be stopped. It isn't intended to be used to correct an error by the officials in declaring the wrong final score.

True, but doesn't have to be limited to just those. As the "responsible administrative authorities" aren't the scorer, timer, or on-court game officials, state association could certainly use this rule as a basis for picking up at the start of an extra period, if it so desires.

[rockyroad]

Bottom line is that the scoreboard is NOT the official score, and your (Camron Rust) statement previously that the scoreboard was somehow the official score is 100 percent wrong...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Bottom line is that the scoreboard is NOT the official score, and your (Camron Rust) statement previously that the scoreboard was somehow the official score is 100 percent wrong...

Then, if the game is over since the officials have left the gym, who won and exactly what did the officials approve? Even if the book ultimately shows something different, the score they approved is what counts.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But what exactly have you approved when you left the floor? What you BELIEVED the score to be. You are approving one team as having won the game. Right or wrong, that is what was done and that is what the rule above says is final. What they tell you the book says or should have said after you're gone is not relevant.

I don't know anyone that goes over to the book after the horn...we certainly check at a timeout/break before the game ends and that should generally take care of it. We make eye contact with the scorer on the way out and if there is something different that they have, they must get your attention before you clear the gym.

No offense intended here, but I believe you have this completely backward. I cannot verify that the score is "what I BELIEVE it to be" without actually seeing the book. And I honestly don't care what the pretty lights on the wall say. Granted, 99% of the time, they are right... but that doesn't really matter.

[Welpe]

So what should our take away be from this thread? Go over at the end of a close game and visually verify the score in the book and that the books are the same?

[bigwhistle]

Originally Posted by Welpe

So what should our take away be from this thread? Go over at the end of a close game and visually verify the score in the book and that the books are the same?

The moral of the story is Don't have close games!!!

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Welpe

So what should our take away be from this thread? Go over at the end of a close game and visually verify the score in the book and that the books are the same?

Yes. Usually there is a time out or 2 at the end of a close game. During on of these timeouts my partner and I both go to the table and verify that the scoreboard reflects what is in the home book. If there is a discrepency between the home and visitor book, we try to get it straight, but ultimately the home book is what is official. When we know that the home book and scoreboard are correct we take a quick glance at the table and make sure they have no problems, then get off the court.

[Welpe]

I'm not asking about close to the end of the game, I'm asking about after the game is actually over.

[OKREF]

[QUOTE=OKREF;865315]Yes. Usually there is a time out or 2 at the end of a close game. During on of these timeouts my partner and I both go to the table and verify that the scoreboard reflects what is in the home book. If there is a discrepency between the home and visitor book, we try to get it straight, but ultimately the home book is what is official. When we know that the home book and scoreboard are correct we take a quick glance at the table and make sure they have no problems, then get off the court.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not asking about close to the end of the game, I'm asking about after the game is actually over.

It was right here.