Approval of Final Score

[ronny mulkey]

I have seen this debated several times on this board and I've searched the archives and don't have a definitive answer.


Double overtime game.

At the 30 seconds remaining mark, officials verify everything matches with scoreboard, book and visiting team book.

At horn, officials give thumps up to table and run off court

Scoreboard reflects visiting team 60 home team 59

As officials are leaving gym, home team coach presents home book that indicates score is actually tied 59 all.

Assume there is no mistake in book.

What did we approve when we ran off the floor - scoreboard or book?

What do we do as officials?
Regardless of answer, what should coach do?

[JRutledge]

The scoreboard is for show, the scorebook is the official record of the game. Not sure how that would happen without someone saying something is wrong. That is after all why it is recommended that the scorer and the visiting team scorers should be sitting together to prevent this issue. I guess in that situation you continue the game, but why did they wait until the game was basically over to point this out?

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

Not basically, actually. The officials did all preventative measures. "Do we match"? Thumps at leaving. After game, home team presents book that indicates score is tied?

How do we proceed?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rut,

Not basically, actually. The officials did all preventative measures. "Do we match"? Thumps at leaving. After game, home team presents book that indicates score is tied?

How do we proceed?

I was not referring to the officials doing things. I am talking about what the teams would be complaining about or making a fuss about the situation. I almost never go to the table to ask them anything about the score. If there is something wrong that is usually going to be mentioned by the participants and certainly the visiting team or team not in charge of the book. Then I might review the books or try to find the discrepancy, but I do not spend much time worrying about the books. I also do not give any "thumbs up" to the table as the score is approved when you leave the floor. In this case you did not leave the floor so the score was not approved.

Obviously if the book has the score tied, you continue if you cannot find a mistake. What else do you think should be done? I am just surprised that one of the teams did not say the scoreboard was wrong as they tend to do if you miss anything in my experience. I have had games where they think a 3 point shot was awarded and they make a big issue out of that one point in the middle of the 1st Quarter. I am just wondering why did it take that incident to make someone aware of the score in such a close game.

Peace

[rekent]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

...

At horn, officials give thumps up to table and run off court

...

As officials are leaving gym, home team coach presents home book that indicates score is actually tied 59 all.

...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... In this case you did not leave the floor so the score was not approved.

...

They had already left/approved.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rekent

They had already left/approved.

He says they were "leaving the gym." That is different than left the gym. And by rule you have to leave the visual confines to approve the score.

"As officials are leaving gym, home team coach presents home book that indicates score is actually tied 59 all."

2-2-4:

The jurisdiction of the officials is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

NOTE: The officials retain clerical authority over the contest through the completion of any reports, including those imposing disqualifications, which are responsive to actions occurring while the officials had jurisdiction. State associations may intercede in the event of unusual incidents that occur before, during or after the officials’ jurisdiction has ended or in the event that a contest is terminated prior to the conclusion of regulation play.

So unless everyone had left you can still proceed with the game. Also the new clarification might allow the game to continue in a situation like this if the state chooses to get involved.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

Assume you left visual confines and approved final score.
Assume book was accurate but scoreboard was inaccurate
What did you approve - book or scoreboard?
Also, assume you did all you could do as as an official - i.e. checked and verified with table personnel that all was accurate before you left visual confines

Then, after you had showered and dressed, the coach presents an accurate book that reflects that the score is tied.

What do you do as officials? What does the cooach do?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He says they were "leaving the gym." That is different than left the gym. And by rule you have to leave the visual confines to approve the score.
Peace

He is talking about leaving the facility after they had showered...not just leaving the court at the buzzer.

[Camron Rust]

I'd say you're approving the score as you believed it to be...perhaps as was indicated on the board. If the book had something different, even though it is the official record, they must make it known before you're out of the court area. If not, it is too late.

[ronny mulkey]

Camron,

I'm not disagreeing as your post certainly sounds logical. Is this the general opinion of most of the discussion board or has there always been a difference of opinion on this discussion board? I found a few threads in the archives and they didn't seem to have a final answer?????

If the losing coach asked for advice, would you suggest he kick it up to your state bigwigs?

[maven]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'd say you're approving the score as you believed it to be...perhaps as was indicated on the board. If the book had something different, even though it is the official record, they must make it known before you're out of the court area. If not, it is too late.

+1

The scoreboard is a representation of the scorebook. If they don't match, I agree, it's up to the table to fix it or get the officials' attention before they leave.

The officials are leaving because they believe the score is NOT tied. Once they're out of the room, the score is IN FACT not tied.

As for advice to the losing coach: get a better scorekeeper. My state wouldn't do anything about this outcome, and I think few would.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rut,

Assume you left visual confines and approved final score.
Assume book was accurate but scoreboard was inaccurate

When I "check the book" I physically look at the "running score" to see what are the last boxes checked on each side. That's the "score I'm approving" and it will be the same as the scoreboard (or we'll find out then why not).

If later it's discovered that the detailed notations don't add up to the running score? Too bad.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rut,

Assume you left visual confines and approved final score.
Assume book was accurate but scoreboard was inaccurate
What did you approve - book or scoreboard?

That has been answered. The scoreboard is for show. It is the book that you verify. So ... my question is - what exactly did you do when you "checked and verified"? The most important thing you are verifying is the score. How could you look at the book, see V 59, H 59, and say, "All right, great, lets shower!"

Also, assume you did all you could do as as an official - i.e. checked and verified with table personnel that all was accurate before you left visual confines

See previous question. What exactly are you verifying if not the score?

Then, after you had showered and dressed, the coach presents an accurate book that reflects that the score is tied.

It's out of your hands at this point. Prepare for some yelling. At you. Probably by several people.

What does the cooach do?

Report that the officials verified that the score was tied and left anyway.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'd say you're approving the score as you believed it to be...perhaps as was indicated on the board. If the book had something different, even though it is the official record, they must make it known before you're out of the court area. If not, it is too late.

Coming from you, this surprises me. From this forum, I know you to be a good official. You know the scoreboard is just a pretty bunch of lights. You (I would have assumed) should also know that we verify the veracity of the BOOK (after all... it's the book that is your official record of all that happened ... they don't ship the scoreboard off somewhere).

[Adam]

Seems to me the score is tied. Kick it up to the state, maybe they'll allow OT to be played, maybe they won't. Good luck.