Approval of Final Score

ronny mulkey

Rut,

Assume you left visual confines and approved final score.
Assume book was accurate but scoreboard was inaccurate
What did you approve - book or scoreboard?
Also, assume you did all you could do as as an official - i.e. checked and verified with table personnel that all was accurate before you left visual confines

Then, after you had showered and dressed, the coach presents an accurate book that reflects that the score is tied.

What do you do as officials? What does the cooach do?

Camron Rust

JRutledge wrote
He says they were "leaving the gym." That is different than left the gym. And by rule you have to leave the visual confines to approve the score.
Peace

He is talking about leaving the facility after they had showered...not just leaving the court at the buzzer.

Camron Rust

I'd say you're approving the score as you believed it to be...perhaps as was indicated on the board. If the book had something different, even though it is the official record, they must make it known before you're out of the court area. If not, it is too late.

ronny mulkey

Camron,

I'm not disagreeing as your post certainly sounds logical. Is this the general opinion of most of the discussion board or has there always been a difference of opinion on this discussion board? I found a few threads in the archives and they didn't seem to have a final answer?????

If the losing coach asked for advice, would you suggest he kick it up to your state bigwigs?

maven

Camron Rust wrote
I'd say you're approving the score as you believed it to be...perhaps as was indicated on the board. If the book had something different, even though it is the official record, they must make it known before you're out of the court area. If not, it is too late.

The scoreboard is a representation of the scorebook. If they don't match, I agree, it's up to the table to fix it or get the officials' attention before they leave.

The officials are leaving because they believe the score is NOT tied. Once they're out of the room, the score is IN FACT not tied. 🙂

As for advice to the losing coach: get a better scorekeeper. My state wouldn't do anything about this outcome, and I think few would.

bob jenkins

ronny mulkey wrote
Rut,

Assume you left visual confines and approved final score.
Assume book was accurate but scoreboard was inaccurate

When I "check the book" I physically look at the "running score" to see what are the last boxes checked on each side. That's the "score I'm approving" and it will be the same as the scoreboard (or we'll find out then why not).

If later it's discovered that the detailed notations don't add up to the running score? Too bad.

MD Longhorn

ronny mulkey wrote
Rut,

Assume you left visual confines and approved final score.
Assume book was accurate but scoreboard was inaccurate
What did you approve - book or scoreboard?

That has been answered. The scoreboard is for show. It is the book that you verify. So ... my question is - what exactly did you do when you "checked and verified"? The most important thing you are verifying is the score. How could you look at the book, see V 59, H 59, and say, "All right, great, lets shower!"

Also, assume you did all you could do as as an official - i.e. checked and verified with table personnel that all was accurate before you left visual confines

See previous question. What exactly are you verifying if not the score?

Then, after you had showered and dressed, the coach presents an accurate book that reflects that the score is tied.

It's out of your hands at this point. Prepare for some yelling. At you. Probably by several people.

What does the cooach do?

Report that the officials verified that the score was tied and left anyway.

MD Longhorn

Camron Rust wrote
I'd say you're approving the score as you believed it to be...perhaps as was indicated on the board. If the book had something different, even though it is the official record, they must make it known before you're out of the court area. If not, it is too late.

Coming from you, this surprises me. From this forum, I know you to be a good official. You know the scoreboard is just a pretty bunch of lights. You (I would have assumed) should also know that we verify the veracity of the BOOK (after all... it's the book that is your official record of all that happened ... they don't ship the scoreboard off somewhere).

Adam

Seems to me the score is tied. Kick it up to the state, maybe they'll allow OT to be played, maybe they won't. Good luck.

BillyMac

Several years ago we had two officials (in another little corner of Connecticut, not mine) come back out of the locker room to handle a situation like this. Their career headed south after that fateful decision.

BillyMac

MD Longhorn wrote
the scoreboard is just a pretty bunch of lights.

Post o' the week.

Adam

As an official, there's no way we continue play, though. The officials were told the book matched what they saw in lights, which was a win. I have no idea if someone altered that after I left the court. Let the state sort it out.

JRutledge

ronny mulkey wrote
What do you do as officials? What does the cooach do?

Well if you are not talking about right after the game has ended (which was not clear to me), then there is nothing you can do. Game over. Not your problem. I also do not care what a coach can or cannot do, I do not coach. My job is done and I am going home. Again this is why both scorers sit next to each other so that this can be prevented instantly. And if not then someone on the bench keeping track should know all kinds of things as it relates to score and fouls so something is not done incorrectly. I put this on the teams to let that happen.

Peace

Camron Rust

MD Longhorn wrote
Coming from you, this surprises me. From this forum, I know you to be a good official. You know the scoreboard is just a pretty bunch of lights. You (I would have assumed) should also know that we verify the veracity of the BOOK (after all... it's the book that is your official record of all that happened ... they don't ship the scoreboard off somewhere).

It is, but when you look over at the table before you leave the floor, you are asking the scorer if they differ from what is on the board. When they do not indicated otherwise, you have verified a score that is equivalent to the board. You don't go over and count of the score in the book or even look at the #'s to see what they are. The scorer has their job and if they indicate that the score is not tied and their is no reason to disbelieve them, then the score is not tied. If the book later says otherwise, then that is irrelevant.

MD Longhorn

Camron Rust wrote
It is, but when you look over at the table before you leave the floor, you are asking the scorer if they differ from what is on the board. When they do not indicated otherwise, you have verified a score that is equivalent to the board. You don't go over and count of the score in the book or even look at the #'s to see what they are. The scorer has their job and if they indicate that the score is not tied and their is no reason to disbelieve them, then the score is not tied. If the book later says otherwise, then that is irrelevant.

I wonder if that's a local thing then. I'm not checking to see if the book matches the scoreboard (heck, I've seen times when home loses that they shut the thing off almost immediately... not often, but I've seen it) - I'm looking to see that the books match. And yes, I'm looking at numbers (not the individual counts, of course ... but the last circled number for each team).

OKREF

If it's a close game, I and my partner, have already gotten with the table to make sure everything is correct. If they say it is, at the end of the game we are getting off the floor. Once you leave the visual confines of the floor, it is over.

Scrapper1

My opinion on this is that you've approved the official score, which is recorded in the official scorebook. That means you allowed the game to end in a tie. (I don't mean that to be accusatory; it's just the fact. Maybe the scorers screwed you or whatever.) The state association will now decide how/if to break the tie.

Nevadaref

Scrapper1 wrote
My opinion on this is that you've approved the official score, which is recorded in the official scorebook. That means you allowed the game to end in a tie. (I don't mean that to be accusatory; it's just the fact. Maybe the scorers screwed you or whatever.) The state association will now decide how/if to break the tie.

That is correct.

rockyroad

Camron Rust wrote
It is, but when you look over at the table before you leave the floor, you are asking the scorer if they differ from what is on the board. When they do not indicated otherwise, you have verified a score that is equivalent to the board. You don't go over and count of the score in the book or even look at the #'s to see what they are. The scorer has their job and if they indicate that the score is not tied and their is no reason to disbelieve them, then the score is not tied. If the book later says otherwise, then that is irrelevant.

Wow.

Rule reference please?

Last I heard, the home book was the OFFICIAL score.

BillyMac

rockyroad wrote
The home book was the OFFICIAL score.

More specifically, the running score in the home scorebook is the official score.