PC foul?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Nothing the defender did caused any contact? If I were the offensive coach, I don't think I'd accept that explanation.

Did the offensive player jump straight up, or did he go outside his vertical plane? He jumped into the defensive player. The player with the ball is to be given no more protection or consideration than the defender in judging which player has violated the rules.

Watch the clip again. If the shooter goes straight up, there will be no contact. He jumps into the defender creating the contact.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Did the offensive player jump straight up, or did he go outside his vertical plane? He jumped into the defensive player. The player with the ball is to be given no more protection or consideration than the defender in judging which player has violated the rules.

Watch the clip again. If the shooter goes straight up, there will be no contact. He jumps into the defender creating the contact.

My point is that in no way does the defender jump straight up, either. He jumped into the defensive player, sure, but the defender also jumps into the shooter.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

My point is that in no way does the defender jump straight up, either. He jumped into the defensive player, sure, but the defender also jumps into the shooter.

Respectfully disagree. If the shooter goes straight up, it looks to me that contact will be avoided.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Respectfully disagree. If the shooter goes straight up, it looks to me that contact will be avoided.

I don't think that has much bearing, as the same could be said about the defender.

[Camron Rust]

While in some cases, I can see calling a foul on the offense when they deliberately jump towards an airborne shooter, it is still the defender who must be in the path of the opponent facing with feet down in order to have LGP. In this case, the step to make that shot attempt was roughly towards the basket....the offensive player took a path which the defender didn't yet have a legal right to occupy. I have a block in this example.

This would be no different than a defender rotating from the corner to cut off a drive from the top of the key and jumping across the shooter's path before the shooter went up. The defender doesn't get the right to a spot by getting airborne first.

If the defender was sailing by from front to back and was clearly going to pass behind the shooter but the shooter jumped back in a direction a shooter wouldn't normally take, I could see a PC foul.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While in some cases, I can see calling a foul on the offense when they deliberately jump towards an airborne shooter, it is still the defender who must be in the path of the opponent facing with feet down in order to have LGP. In this case, the step to make that shot attempt was roughly towards the basket....the offensive player took a path which the defender didn't yet have a legal right to occupy. I have a block in this example.

This would be no different than a defender rotating from the corner to cut off a drive from the top of the key and jumping across the shooter's path before the shooter went up. The defender doesn't get the right to a spot by getting airborne first.

If the defender was sailing by from front to back and was clearly going to pass behind the shooter but the shooter jumped back in a direction a shooter wouldn't normally take, I could see a PC foul.

IMO, this is the best explanation on this topic. What I've always been told is that a defender can have LGP and still move upwards (i.e. jump) or backwards. But, if a defender is moving sideways (and doesn't get LPG first) or forward in the path of an offensive player, blocking charge.

EDIT: just noticed I said "blocking charge". I meant to say blocking foul.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by representing

IMO, this is the best explanation on this topic. What I've always been told is that a defender can have LGP and still move upwards (i.e. jump) or backwards. But, if a defender is moving sideways (and doesn't get LPG first) or forward in the path of an offensive player, blocking charge.

I am going with a defensive foul. now who thinks the offensive player gets shots? It appears in the video that the official behind the play is signaling the foul was "on the ground."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While in some cases, I can see calling a foul on the offense when they deliberately jump towards an airborne shooter, it is still the defender who must be in the path of the opponent facing with feet down in order to have LGP. In this case, the step to make that shot attempt was roughly towards the basket....the offensive player took a path which the defender didn't yet have a legal right to occupy. I have a block in this example.

This would be no different than a defender rotating from the corner to cut off a drive from the top of the key and jumping across the shooter's path before the shooter went up. The defender doesn't get the right to a spot by getting airborne first.

If the defender was sailing by from front to back and was clearly going to pass behind the shooter but the shooter jumped back in a direction a shooter wouldn't normally take, I could see a PC foul.

Going to have to question the thought process for a couple of things in here.
When does an airborne player have the right to a landing space? I was always taught that if a space was unoccupied then anyone had a right to it as long as he got there first and without causing illegal contact. So of a defender goes airborne and will land in a certain location, can an offensive player run over to that spot or a spot in between and cause the defender to foul?
You state that this defender didn't have a right to that path. Why not? Was it occupied when he jumped? You write that he doesn't get the right to his path by going airborne first. I don't believe that is correct, but if it is, then how does he obtain this right?

You give an example of a player driving to the basket along the endline and a defender jumping into that path. You have a defensive foul. Now reverse which player has the ball. Would you allow a defender to run along the endline and take away his landing space after he has already jumped?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Going to have to question the thought process for a couple of things in here.
When does an airborne player have the right to a landing space? I was always taught that if a space was unoccupied then anyone had a right to it as long as he got there first and without causing illegal contact. So of a defender goes airborne and will land in a certain location, can an offensive player run over to that spot or a spot in between and cause the defender to foul?
You state that this defender didn't have a right to that path. Why not? Was it occupied when he jumped? You write that he doesn't get the right to his path by going airborne first. I don't believe that is correct, but if it is, then how does he obtain this right?

You give an example of a player driving to the basket along the endline and a defender jumping into that path. You have a defensive foul. Now reverse which player has the ball. Would you allow a defender to run along the endline and take away his landing space after he has already jumped?

Taught this as well. And there was no mention that this doesn't apply if a shooter might use part of this space in a yet-to-occur shot attempt.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Going to have to question the thought process for a couple of things in here.
When does an airborne player have the right to a landing space?

When he goes straight up.

I was always taught that if a space was unoccupied then anyone had a right to it as long as he got there first and without causing illegal contact. So of a defender goes airborne and will land in a certain location, can an offensive player run over to that spot or a spot in between and cause the defender to foul?

Yes. You are were you were until you get where you're going. The airborne defender doesn't have the space where he will land until he actually lands. If the offensive player beats him to that space without illegally contacting anyone, it's the offensive player's space. When the defender arrives, he will be second to the space and will have illegally contacted the offensive player.

You state that this defender didn't have a right to that path. Why not? Was it occupied when he jumped? You write that he doesn't get the right to his path by going airborne first. I don't believe that is correct, but if it is, then how does he obtain this right?

I don't understand how or why you're extending the right to a spot to a right to a path.

For me this is contact by a defender who approached from behind and pushing under 10-6-6.

Is everyone considering it a pass when he bounces the ball off his teammate at the start of the clip? Any consideration at all for illegal dribble for having his pivot foot off the floor when he pushes the ball?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... Now reverse which player has the ball. Would you allow a defender to run along the endline and take away his landing space after he has already jumped?

How about you answer a question? (I know you are a lawyer and used to asking all the questions without ever having to answer one yourself).


B2 is running running parallel to the endline and jumps towards the baskets and A1, approaching perpendicular to the endline, then goes airborne towards the basket and they collide mid-air. Who is the foul on?