PC foul?

[Nevadaref]

A colleague of mine called my attention to this video, so what are the thoughts of those here?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...1473--nba.html

[APG]

Also, one of our own is working this game.

And I have a foul on the defense.

[tjones1]

I guess I'm missing the clip. I just keep getting highlights and I don't see a crash.

Edit: If it's the one above by APG, I have a foul on the defender.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by APG

And I have a foul on the defense.

Thanks for embedding the video.

Why do you judge that to be a foul by the defender? Please give your rationale.

What if the action were exactly the same, but we gave the ball to the other player? Would that change your opinion?

[Raymond]

Defensive player coming from behind is responsible for the contact.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Thanks for embedding the video.

Why do you judge that to be a foul by the defender? Please give your rationale.

What if the action were exactly the same, but we gave the ball to the other player? Would that change your opinion?

Defensive player does not have legal guarding position. Defensive player is moving toward his opponent at the time of contact. Yes the offensive player may have leaned a little bit, but IMO there would have been contact by the defensive player anyhow and the offensive player does not do anything overt in creating the contact.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Defensive player coming from behind is responsible for the contact.

Preface: I wish to analyze this play using NFHS rules. I don't care what the ruling is in an NBA game.

Is the defender really coming from behind or the side? Secondly, isn't that rule for players moving in the same path and direction?

Originally Posted by APG

Defensive player does not have legal guarding position. Defensive player is moving toward his opponent at the time of contact. Yes the offensive player may have leaned a little bit, but IMO there would have been contact by the defensive player anyhow and the offensive player does not do anything overt in creating the contact.

Is LGP needed for this play? We have an airborne player and an opponent. I guess that we can discuss verticality, but it doesn't appear to me that either player remained in his vertical plane.


Both of you please answer this question.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if the action were exactly the same, but we gave the ball to the other player? Would that change your opinion?

[APG]

If an offensive player and defensive player are moving toward each other, then the greater responsibility for the contact is going to be on the defender. I'm not sure what your trying to ask in your hypothetical. Are you asking us to judge the play as if the shooter was in the GSW's defender position and the defender was in Love's position and their actions were the exact same?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by APG

If an offensive player and defensive player are moving toward each other, then the greater responsibility for the contact is going to be on the defender.

Interesting thought. I'm not sure that 4-23-3c applies to an airborne player. Which has more weight in a situation such as this--4-23-3c or 4-23-1.

Originally Posted by APG

I'm not sure what your trying to ask in your hypothetical. Are you asking us to judge the play as if the shooter was in the GSW's defender position and the defender was in Love's position and their actions were the exact same?

Yep, that is what I am asking you to consider. I'm trying to discover if people are giving additional rights to the player with the ball. It seems to me that in the case of a collision such as this, it shouldn't matter which player, if either, has the ball. The foul should be based upon the actions of the players and the presence of the ball isn't relevant.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The foul should be based upon the actions of the players and the presence of the ball isn't relevant.

I see this point.

From what I see, the defender is responsible for contact for being a bit reckless, and the shooter is clearly responsible for contact from his leaning in (which was more than "a little").

Here's a novel idea: double foul, before the release. Get 'em both, and give blue the ball back on the sideline.

[OKREF]

Player Control. The defense would have avoided the contact had the shooter gone straight up. He jumped into the defensive player. Offense initiated all the contact.

[JRutledge]

Shooting foul all the way. Defender not in LGP and the movement by the shooter did nothing to cause contact IMO.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Shooting foul all the way. Defender not in LGP and the movement by the shooter did nothing to cause contact IMO.

Peace

The movement by the shooter caused all the contact.

[zm1283]

Shooting foul on the defense.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by OKREF

The movement by the shooter caused all the contact.

Nothing the defender did caused any contact? If I were the offensive coach, I don't think I'd accept that explanation.