Block/Charge End of Quarter

[maven]

NFHS:

I like a PC foul on the airborne shooter. The defender had LGP and had his spot (despite a little wiggle visible in super slo-mo) before the shooter went airborne.

The foul occurred before the horn, but by less than a second. At my level, we're not putting that little time back on the clock (and some clocks don't register tenths anyway). End of period.

[Pantherdreams]

Defensive player is repositioning body and feet laterally once the player is airborne. If I feel like contact happened before the clock expired and we've been calling everything on shooters/defenders all night. Then blocking on the defense.

My gut as a stand along play says its the end of quarter, the shot is off and airborne way before contact happens, so offense is not disadvantaged at all and contact isn't impacting play. No Call.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Defensive player is repositioning body and feet laterally once the player is airborne. If I feel like contact happened before the clock expired and we've been calling everything on shooters/defenders all night. Then blocking on the defense.

My gut as a stand along play says its the end of quarter, the shot is off and airborne way before contact happens, so offense is not disadvantaged at all and contact isn't impacting play. No Call.

I disagree. It isn't a no call. He is airborne and still a shooter until he returns to the floor. Have to make some call on that.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I disagree. It isn't a no call. He is airborne and still a shooter until he returns to the floor. Have to make some call on that.

+1

While this might not qualify as a train wreck, we've got two bodies on the floor. In my association (the HS level) we're told there has to be a whistle on this.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Defensive player is repositioning body and feet laterally once the player is airborne.

But what is the rule? Does it say anything about such things?

[Pantherdreams]

But what is the rule? Does it say anything about such things?

Says that the defensive player must occupy the position on the floor before the offensive player leaves the floor. If they move to occupy a space once the player is in the air they are responsible for illegal contact. I only picked it up on the slow mo though.

I disagree. It isn't a no call. He is airborne and still a shooter until he returns to the floor. Have to make some call on that.

So you are not considering time as a determining factor here. There will no rebound, there will be no chance to inbound/outlet the ball. The shot cannot be effected and nothing else can occur during the time period. I understand protecting the shooter but in this situation calling something doesn't impact the result of the play or the next play. Advantage/ disadvantage?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

But what is the rule? Does it say anything about such things?

Says that the defensive player must occupy the position on the floor before the offensive player leaves the floor. If they move to occupy a space once the player is in the air they are responsible for illegal contact. I only picked it up on the slow mo though.

I disagree. It isn't a no call. He is airborne and still a shooter until he returns to the floor. Have to make some call on that.

So you are not considering time as a determining factor here. There will no rebound, there will be no chance to inbound/outlet the ball. The shot cannot be effected and nothing else can occur during the time period. I understand protecting the shooter but in this situation calling something doesn't impact the result of the play or the next play. Advantage/ disadvantage?

Time doesn't matter. He is a shooter until he comes back to the floor. The shot was prior to the end of the period. If he is fouled by the defense in the same situation, you would shoot the free throws.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Time doesn't matter. He is a shooter until he comes back to the floor. The shot was prior to the end of the period. If he is fouled by the defense in the same situation, you would shoot the free throws.

Can someone remind me the procedure for what to do if there is a foul on a shooter at the buzzer? With references would be appreciated so I can read up a little.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Can someone remind me the procedure for what to do if there is a foul on a shooter at the buzzer? With references would be appreciated so I can read up a little.

Shoot the FTs with no one on the line. Teams must remain at their bench areas until the half ends (when the second FT ends).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

But what is the rule? Does it say anything about such things?

Says that the defensive player must occupy the position on the floor before the offensive player leaves the floor. If they move to occupy a space once the player is in the air they are responsible for illegal contact. I only picked it up on the slow mo though.

Are you sure about that? Is that really what the rule says?

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I disagree. It isn't a no call. He is airborne and still a shooter until he returns to the floor. Have to make some call on that.

So you are not considering time as a determining factor here. There will no rebound, there will be no chance to inbound/outlet the ball. The shot cannot be effected and nothing else can occur during the time period. I understand protecting the shooter but in this situation calling something doesn't impact the result of the play or the next play. Advantage/ disadvantage?

Nope...it is not about the rebounding advantage. It is about the advantage the shooter gained by taking a path to the shot that is through the defender...even if it is after the release.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Are you sure about that? Is that really what the rule says?

"He has the right to land on another place on the playing court provided that the landing place and the direct path between the take-off and landing place is not already occupied by an opponent(s) at the time of take-off.
If a player has taken off and landed but his momentum causes him to contact an opponent who has taken a legal guarding position beyond the landing place, the jumper is responsible for the contact.
An opponent may not move into the path of a player after that player has jumped into the air."

As I read this he cannot move into a position (move into the path) of a player after the player has jumped in the air that the player could rightfully land in or pass through.


Nope...it is not about the rebounding advantage. It is about the advantage the shooter gained by taking a path to the shot that is through the defender...even if it is after the release.

He didn't take that path to the shot. He's release his shot and still is airborne but will not be disadvantaged by contact.

If a shot was blocked into the 3rd throw and then the collision happened that was caused by the defense would you call that on on the defense? Its about the nature of the play. If their is contact at any point but doesn't gain/create advantage/disadvantage then we no call. Isn't that the nature of no call? The contact isn't helping/hurting either players ability to do anything.

[Adam]

If the defender ends up on the floor, that's displacement worthy of a foul. He's blocked that path and the shooter is obligated to not run him over. The pending dead ball does not change that. If I let this go as a pattern, I'd be working remedial ball for two years.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

He didn't take that path to the shot. He's release his shot and still is airborne but will not be disadvantaged by contact.

If a shot was blocked into the 3rd throw and then the collision happened that was caused by the defense would you call that on on the defense? Its about the nature of the play. If their is contact at any point but doesn't gain/create advantage/disadvantage then we no call. Isn't that the nature of no call? The contact isn't helping/hurting either players ability to do anything.

Yes I would, if he was still airborne. He is a shooter until he comes back to the floor. If the defense is there and has a LGP prior to the shooter going airborne, and the shooter plows him, I have PC.

When watching the slow motion, it really looks like the defensive player moved into the path of the shooter. However at full speed it looks like a PC. If the ref calls a block on that exact same play, we have 2 shots.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

He didn't take that path to the shot.

He was going to get hit whether he moved or not. He was hit square in the chest and had only move his torso a few inches...no where near enough make the difference in contact or none. It may be a tough call but don't bail the shooter out just because the defender shifts...the rules only require that the defender be in the path and he met that requirement. It's an easy out that too many officials take when the defender twitches or moves a bit but it isn't by rule.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

He's release his shot and still is airborne but will not be disadvantaged by contact. If a shot was blocked into the 3rd throw and then the collision happened that was caused by the defense would you call that on on the defense? Its about the nature of the play. If their is contact at any point but doesn't gain/create advantage/disadvantage then we no call. Isn't that the nature of no call? The contact isn't helping/hurting either players ability to do anything.

It is about the fact that the shooter elected to take a path that was occupied in order to get a more desirable shot than the defense was allowing. The advantage gained was in the path taken to the shot that carried him through the shooter.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But what is the rule? Does it say anything about such things?

10.6.1 SITUATION C:

B1 is standing behind the plane of the backboard before A1 jumps for a lay-up shot. The forward momentum causes airborne shooter A1 to charge into B1.

RULING: B1 is entitled to the position obtained legally before A1 left the floor. If the ball goes through the basket before or after the contact occurs, the player-control foul cancels the goal. However, if B1 moves into the path of A1 after A1 has left the floor, the foul is on B1. B1's foul on the airborne shooter is a foul during the act of shooting. If the shot is successful, one free throw is *awarded and if it is unsuccessful, two free throws result. (4-19-1, 4-19-6; 6-7-4; 10 Penalty 2, 5a)