Traveling

[drofficial]

Hey Guys,
I follow this board, but don't chime in much. But I wanted to get your thoughts on this:

It seems to me that the blatant lack of travel calls at all levels is seriously and adversley affecting the game of BB. There are various ways that one can travel, but the rule that I have in mind is really very easy to see and call. But we don't. Rule 4.3.C (NFHS) states, "the pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble."

This happens ALL THE TIME. Watch any college game and you will see this violation occur numerous times. It happens so often, and is never called, that we don't even think of it as a violation. But it is, plain and simple. I would estimate it happens more often than fouls--i.e., on average 40 plus times a game. Just watch a game and start counting and you will see what I mean. Yes, some (though certainly not all) of the violations are 40 feet from the basket and thus "no advantage is gained." But I am beginning to think that if we simply enforced this one rule consistently (and it would not be hard to do), the entire game of basketball would be changed for the better. The offense would not gain such a huge advantage on drives to the basket. There would be fewer fouls as defenders would not be put in obviously disadvantaged spots. Offensive players would have to show more skill - and probably more passing and teamwork, rather than all the dribble drives. In short, it would be a much better, and more fun game to play and officiate.

Because we have gotten to the point where this rule has been totally disregarded, it would take a massive top-down effort to enforce it again. I am certainly not advocating that we as officials take it upon ourselves to start calling it.

Thoughts?

If you doubt my assertions about the frequency of this violation, please just watch any game and look for this violation on every touch. Then start counting. The pivot cannot be lifted BEFORE the ball is released for a dribble.

[JRutledge]

I think the goal for most experienced officials are to call the obvious, not to call the minor violation. I would agree that technically there are violations missed, but not necessarily missed violations. Also traveling is the most inconsistent call in the game of basketball IMO. There are always plays that I think to my self, "Did that just happen?" I do not want to call those kinds of violations on the regular basis, I wan to call the "OMG....he traveled" violations. I know other officials that feel the same way as I do. And there are others that focus so much on calling everything they see, they call things that technically did not take place. After all this is where judgment comes into play. Not everyone has the same judgment.

Peace

[drofficial]

Thanks JRutledge,
The philosophy that you outline is no doubt the one adopted by most officials today (call the OMG, everyone saw that, obvious travel call). But that is precisely my point: that philosophy is doing serious damage to the beauty of the game of BB because offensive players can such an advantage. Even on the specific plays where they travel and don't gain an advantage, it still gives them more leeway/freedom on what they can do - which ultimately puts the defense in a nearly impossible position, which leads to the absurd number of foul calls (about 1 per minute at all levels - is there any other sport that has that ridiculous ratio: can you imagine a footbal game with 50 penalties - how fun would that be to watch or play or officiate).

So it become a vicious cycle. We dont call travels; therefore we have to call more fouls. Then, since we are already blowing the whistle all the time for fouls, we don't want to interrupt the game with "ticky tack" travel calls. But if the travel rule were enforced, then we would not have to call all the fouls.

One other thought, per my earlier comments, the violation in which the players picks up the pivot foot before releasing the ball for a dribble is NOT one of those "did that just happen" plays. It is very easy to see if you simply pay attention and concentrate.

[JRutledge]

I totally disagree that there is serious damage done to the game because a minor violation that is hardly seen is missed or not called. For one I have yet to see an official get all those anyway.

I also do not think that calls that are not made are as consious or deliberate. I think many are just tough to see and you do not want to call what you "think" happen or cannot explain it. I see too many officials, especially at the HS level just call any action that is funny a travel. Or call the carry where they only see a hesitation, not the positioning of the ball. I do not know how many times I see a legal jump stop and all of a sudden a whistle. I do not think this is runing the game at all. It think the game just fast and hard to see everything. We are human after all and we make mistakes. I think too often people like to sit on their couch and complain about what they think they see and do not look at it from the perspective on the floor. I just saw a game of mine online and wanted to see my calls and if they were there. I saw some good things and I saw some bad things even in my game. I try my best to get all the obvious things and sometimes I missed some plays or was not as deliberate as I wanted to have things called.

The game is fine. Video has helped many of us get better with these calls. I know I have been helped to see myself on tape more often with all the formats games are broadcast.

Peace

[maven]

Originally Posted by drofficial

Thoughts?

Even granting your dubious premise that this happens all the time, I disagree that your conclusion follows. It's not ruining the game.

You might ask yourself how likely it is that you're right about this and dozens of highly paid professional officials are habitually getting it wrong in every game they work. Everyone misses a call now and then, but you're suggesting much worse.

I would encourage you to appreciate the game at higher levels the way that it's called. It sounds as if watching games is extremely stressful for you, and that's not good for your health.

Just my opinion.

[drofficial]

Thanks for the thoughts. But I am still failing to make my point. I am not saying that we are "missing" these calls or getting them "wrong. I am saying that this particular play happens so often that we do not even think of it as violating a rule. And to repeat: this is a very easy call to make: You find the pivot fit and if that foot moves before the ball is released on a dribble, you call the violation.

Watching games is not stressful for me. And speaking of watching games, and the game of BB being "fine," one might at least ask about the abysmal state of the NBA. Even CBB attendance and TV ratings are down. Now, of course, I am not suggesting that it's all because of failure to apply the rules. But I do think they game of BB would be much better if there were not 40 uncalled violations in every game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by drofficial

...But I do think they game of BB would be much better if there were not 40 uncalled violations in every game.

I'm assuming you meant to place a smiley face after this sentence.

Personally, when I get a chance to break down a game I see more incorrectly called travels than missed travels.

[APG]

Originally Posted by drofficial

Thanks for the thoughts. But I am still failing to make my point. I am not saying that we are "missing" these calls or getting them "wrong. I am saying that this particular play happens so often that we do not even think of it as violating a rule. And to repeat: this is a very easy call to make: You find the pivot fit and if that foot moves before the ball is released on a dribble, you call the violation.

Watching games is not stressful for me. And speaking of watching games, and the game of BB being "fine," one might at least ask about the abysmal state of the NBA. Even CBB attendance and TV ratings are down. Now, of course, I am not suggesting that it's all because of failure to apply the rules. But I do think they game of BB would be much better if there were not 40 uncalled violations in every game.

Ratings for the NBA have been up he past 3-4 years FYI...

I got to completely disagree with your initial post. No one is complaining about what may be a technical travel that has to be caught in slow motion. In fact, I'd say the game is "ruined" when officials start calling plays that are legal, travels...often times because it "looked funny" which happens too much at the high school level.

[drofficial]

Oh well. I guess we aren't gonne be on the same page here. This is not a "guess" or a "play that looks funny" or a play "that is hard to see" or a play "that requires slow motion to see." It happens everywhere all the time, in broad daylight, in regular speed, and it's plain to see. But we simply don't think of it as a violation because it is never called. And if it were, it would change the game of BB--and I belive for the better.

Maybe I will get someone who is tech savvy to help me put together a video.

[drofficial]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm assuming you meant to place a smiley face after this sentence.

No. And 40 would be a conservative number is some games...

Personally, when I get a chance to break down a game I see more incorrectly called travels than missed travels.

Then with all due respect, you are not breaking down the game correctly, at least if we are applying the rule as written

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by drofficial

But I do think they game of BB would be much better if there were not 40 uncalled violations in every game.

You believe a game would be improved if 40 additional traveling violations were called in every game.

That's an additional violation and whistle every minute of every game.

That's insane.

[APG]

Originally Posted by drofficial

Oh well. I guess we aren't gonne be on the same page here. This is not a "guess" or a "play that looks funny" or a play "that is hard to see" or a play "that requires slow motion to see." It happens everywhere all the time, in broad daylight, in regular speed, and it's plain to see. But we simply don't think of it as a violation because it is never called. And if it were, it would change the game of BB--and I belive for the better.

Maybe I will get someone who is tech savvy to help me put together a video.

Again, no one wants officials to start calling every single technical travel in a game which I'm convinced are some of these plays that you are wanting to see called....same as no one realistically wants 3 seconds called the very second the count hits 3.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by drofficial

Then with all due respect, you are not breaking down the game correctly, at least if we are applying the rule as written

I'm sorry, but you can't speak for games that anyone here is working. It might just be possible that you're breaking the film down incorrectly rather than everyone else involved in basketball everywhere.

[Adam]

And two weeks into the season I've seen more phantom travels than missed travels

[BktBallRef]

The only travel I see consistently ignored is in the low post with the big man's back to the basket. While holding the ball with both feet on the floor, he will step to the middle of the lane or the endline and then complete the move by stepping with the second foot (pivot foot). Traveling.

Shaquille O'Neal got away with it for years and it's trickled down to college and HS.