Cannot Sub for Guy who Dunks in Pregame?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Technically, yes. But if the coach wants the player out, why make a big deal of it. As soon as the first T is taken, he can take him out anyway and letting him do it before the first T isn't going to cause a problem and will take less time than telling him he has to wait and then doing it. No need to ruffle the feathers of the coach for such an insignificant issue.

Why is everyone assuming the coach will have a problem with waiting for the proper time to substitute? Is everyone out there dealing with nothing but d!ckhead coaches?

Who's to say subbing the kid too early won't ruffle the feathers of the opposing coach who will want to know why the starting line-up is being changed without penalty?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why is everyone assuming the coach will have a problem with waiting for the proper time to substitute? Is everyone out there dealing with nothing but d!ckhead coaches?

Who's to say subbing the kid too early won't ruffle the feathers of the opposing coach who will want to know why the starting line-up is being changed without penalty?

What harm is there? The proper time is still before any playing action, so there is zero advantage here. If the coach is going to pitch a fit over whether the sub happens before or after the first free throw, he's going to end up with a seat belt at some point.

I get that the rule says we should wait for the first free throw, but I can't see picking this nit.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

What harm is there? The proper time is still before any playing action, so there is zero advantage here. If the coach is going to pitch a fit over whether the sub happens before or after the first free throw, he's going to end up with a seat belt at some point.

I get that the rule says we should wait for the first free throw, but I can't see picking this nit.

So you are willing to bend a rule as "to not ruffle the feathers of a coach" but then you are criticiaing the coach whose "feathers are ruffled" b/c we are not properly adjudicating the rules. Something about that seems backwards to me.

What's the harm in saying "Coach, by rule you cannot bring out a starter until the ball is live, which will occur when the first free throw is shot". Why is everyone assuming that this statement will "ruffle the feathers" of the HC.

I've had this situation once and the coach had absolutely ZERO heartache with waiting for the free throws. As I stated above, it seems like everybody but me is dealing with off-kiltered coaches.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

What harm is there? The proper time is still before any playing action, so there is zero advantage here. If the coach is going to pitch a fit over whether the sub happens before or after the first free throw, he's going to end up with a seat belt at some point.

I get that the rule says we should wait for the first free throw, but I can't see picking this nit.

Who said anything about pitching a fit. And why do you assume a coach who asks a legitimate question about a rule that is not being enforced properly will eventually get T'd up.

In my experiences, I've found that coaches who have extensive rules knowledge are the least headache.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Who said anything about pitching a fit. And why do you assume a coach who asks a legitimate question about a rule that is not being enforced properly will eventually get T'd up.

In my experiences, I've found that coaches who have extensive rules knowledge are the least headache.

"Coach, you're right, by rule he should wait til after the first free throw, but the coach is taking care of a problem for us. I'm not forcing him to wait an irrelevant ten seconds."
If that's going to be a problem, he's not a reasonable coach.

Conversely, "Coach, you can sub right after the first free throw. Meanwhile, feel free to keep him by your bench and chew on him until we beckon the sub in."

I honestly don't see either being a problem.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why is everyone assuming the coach will have a problem with waiting for the proper time to substitute? Is everyone out there dealing with nothing but d!ckhead coaches?

Who's to say subbing the kid too early won't ruffle the feathers of the opposing coach who will want to know why the starting line-up is being changed without penalty?

Not that I should even need to say this, but the OP is in a freaking middle school game. I am not worried in this case what the opposing coach says. In a varsity game, I will likely get the opposing coach's ok before I let the angry coach change his starting lineup. Yes he is angry because his kid just did a very stupid thing and he has no coaching box the entire game. If you think he's not going to be angry (at his player and the situation) you're dreaming.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Not that I should even need to say this, but the OP is in a freaking middle school game. I am not worried in this case what the opposing coach says. In a varsity game, I will likely get the opposing coach's ok before I let the angry coach change his starting lineup. Yes he is angry because his kid just did a very stupid thing and he has no coaching box the entire game. If you think he's not going to be angry (at his player and the situation) you're dreaming.

I missed the part of the conversation where it said "what is the rule for MS games". We already know lower level games get adjudicated more leniently than HS Varsity and above. I thought the discussion was about what is the rule and the best way to adjuicate it.

And coaches get mad for many things (I feel like I'm channeling my inner JRut now). So when a coach is down by 20 points in the 3rd quarter and a dumba$$ AC gets whacked for a T, are you going to worry about how angry the coach is?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I missed the part of the conversation where it said "what is the rule for MS games". We already know lower level games get adjudicated more leniently than HS Varsity and above. I thought the discussion was about what is the rule and the best way to adjuicate it.

And coaches get mad for many things (I feel like I'm channeling my inner JRut now). So when a coach is down by 20 points in the 3rd quarter and a dumba$$ AC gets whacked for a T, are you going to worry about how angry the coach is?

No, but he's free to sub his AC out if he likes.

[APG]

Honestly, I think the overwhelming majority of coaches would react in the same manner that BNR is talking about. And if the opposing coach decides to make an issue of this, you have no leg to stand on at all.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I missed the part of the conversation where it said "what is the rule for MS games". We already know lower level games get adjudicated more leniently than HS Varsity and above. I thought the discussion was about what is the rule and the best way to adjuicate it.

And coaches get mad for many things (I feel like I'm channeling my inner JRut now). So when a coach is down by 20 points in the 3rd quarter and a dumba$$ AC gets whacked for a T, are you going to worry about how angry the coach is?

In the middle school games around here I'm lucky they have lineups in the books at game time. So yes I run things differently in middle school games. I said very specifically that what I would do is not going with the rule as written. But as far as game management, I am going to handle that scenario the way I wrote it. I'll admit it isn't by the letter of the rule. Your other scenario is irrelevant, so I won't even speak to it. You missed my entire point, and that's ok. I'm perfectly fine with anyone who does things by the book.