What do you have?

flsh224 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:03am

7th grade boys game

13 seconds left in the game when Team A scores to get within 34-31. Team A has no timeouts left. Player B1 ends up with the ball in the lane after the ball goes through the basket. He looks for someone to give the ball to, he never gets out of bounds, not even close to the line. He passes it to B2, who takes off dribbling like the ball had been put inbound. He is then fouled by Team A.

So my questions are, should a violation have been called on Team B and if so when? Or do they have 5 seconds to properly inbound the ball, no matter what they do with it?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:11am

Violation as soon as you (the official) recognize that the pass to B2 was intended to be a "throw in"

JugglingReferee · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:36am

I've got a count as soon as B1 looks for someone, and a violation as soon as B2 takes off down the court.

Unless I've been briefed ahead of time with this situation, then I'm likely to rule a violation. And then when I am briefed, I would suggest a proper way to burn time from the game in this situation.

flsh224 · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:49am

Well, I guess I kicked it. I started the 5 count as soon as B1 had the ball at his disposal and continued it after he gave it to B2. I was at 4 when B2 was fouled. B2 was dribbling along the end line when fouled. My interpretation was that Team B had 5 seconds to properly inbound the ball and until the 5 seconds were up or I knew they had no chance of properly inbounding it, they hadn't advanced it up the court.

My partner after the game thought I should have called a violation. I have been unable to find it in the rule or case book to back up calling the violation.

bob jenkins · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by flsh224

Well, I guess I kicked it. I started the 5 count as soon as B1 had the ball at his disposal and continued it after he gave it to B2. I was at 4 when B2 was fouled. B2 was dribbling along the end line when fouled. My interpretation was that Team B had 5 seconds to properly inbound the ball and until the 5 seconds were up or I knew they had no chance of properly inbounding it, they hadn't advanced it up the court.

My partner after the game thought I should have called a violation. I have been unable to find it in the rule or case book to back up calling the violation.

This play caused quite a long discussion here many years ago. The options were (a) immediate violation; (b) wait 5 seconds; or (c) stop the clock and bring them back to do it right

The NFHS issued an interp (check the Past Interp Archive) saying (a) was the correct response.

JugglingReferee · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:00pm

Team A players do not need to be aware if B is playing legally, and since no legal throw-in has taken place, B's actions only confuse A, which I don't believe is fair to A. A TI violation makes sense.

In the reverse case, when A scores and is losing, and knocks the ball away, we can go straight to the T. In that case, B never had a chance to properly play basketball. In your case, B did have a chance to properly play basketball, so I less inclined to kill the play and let them inbound again with a stopped clock. The only option left is a TI violation or a T. This T would be too much, imho.

grunewar · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

(c) stop the clock and bring them back to do it right.

This is my younger kids, Rec 11U and below answer. Else, I have a violation.

BillyMac · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

In the reverse case, when A scores and is winning, and knocks the ball away, we can go straight to the T.

Before, or after, a delay of game warning.

PG_Ref · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:05pm

Caseplay 9.2.2 SITUATION C:

A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1 grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate, who scores a basket.

RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1 must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7)

Adam · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Team A players do not need to be aware if B is playing legally, and since no legal throw-in has taken place, B's actions only confuse A, which I don't believe is fair to A. A TI violation makes sense.

In the reverse case, when A scores and is winning, and knocks the ball away, we can go straight to the T. In that case, B never had a chance to properly play basketball. In your case, B did have a chance to properly play basketball, so I less inclined to kill the play and let them inbound again with a stopped clock. The only option left is a TI violation or a T. This T would be too much, imho.

If A scores and is winning, the case play does not apply. Kill the clock, issue the warning, and move on. A is not benefiting, as the stopped clock negates whatever advantage their player thought he would get.

Adam · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by flsh224

Well, I guess I kicked it. I started the 5 count as soon as B1 had the ball at his disposal and continued it after he gave it to B2. I was at 4 when B2 was fouled. B2 was dribbling along the end line when fouled. My interpretation was that Team B had 5 seconds to properly inbound the ball and until the 5 seconds were up or I knew they had no chance of properly inbounding it, they hadn't advanced it up the court.

My partner after the game thought I should have called a violation. I have been unable to find it in the rule or case book to back up calling the violation.

Hmmm. Did you call it an intentional foul for contact with the thrower during a throw-in?

JugglingReferee · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

If A scores and is winning, the case play does not apply. Kill the clock, issue the warning, and move on. A is not benefiting, as the stopped clock negates whatever advantage their player thought he would get.

Fixed. Tx.