"That was a WEAK foul!!!"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rsl

Agreed, but what the OP described (raucous crowd and borderline coach) makes me think the it was casual in this case. Just my opinion.

Probably, I just don't like asking that question when a guy is second guessing himself. Too many times the coach is stupid, and a good T doesn't help.
Or a smart coach will just live quietly with a bad T.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by Adam

Probably, I just don't like asking that question when a guy is second guessing himself. Too many times the coach is stupid, and a good T doesn't help.
Or a smart coach will just live quietly with a bad T.

OK, I see your point.

[JRutledge]

For me that comment would not get a T in itself, but if it was included in other bad behavior then the coach is on sketchy ground with me. Does that mean that I would give a T here? Probably not, but I can see how that was the result.

I think we all have to find our "line in the sand." Some have a shorter line than others.

Like I was told a long time ago, "When you roll the dice, you just might crap out." So a coach is taking a chance that any of his comments will be misunderstood. And if he does not want it that way, well you know what they say about quoting silence.

Peace

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Adam

The answer to whether it was a good T rarely involves asking if the game got better. The two are perhaps correlated, but not causal.

I wacked a coach whose team was 17 pts behind in the first half. After that he started coaching and, although they lost the game, they cut the lead to 2 points at one time. I wonder if AD's realize that taxpayer money is wasted on coaches who don't coach. What I really want to tell a coach at that time is, "Coach, you're behind by 17 pts. Your team needs your efforts more than I do." As a parent, I'd be upset that my kid is being ignored while the refs get all the attention.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I wacked a coach whose team was 17 pts behind in the first half. After that he started coaching and, although they lost the game, they cut the lead to 2 points at one time. I wonder if AD's realize that taxpayer money is wasted on coaches who don't coach.

Maybe he was coaching? Maybe he was trying to get his kids "fired up"? And he unknowingly included you in his devious plan that seemed to work.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe he was coaching? Maybe he was trying to get his kids "fired up"? And he unknowingly included you in his devious plan that seemed to work.

The sad part is, this might be the coach's takeaway from the game.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials..

Nip this in the bud. Especially in a MS game.

As for the T, it was a good one. Whenever a coach tells me he wasn't talking to me I usually laugh inside.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

May have kicked a technical foul last night. Very competitive MS boys game. B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials. A1 is driving across the lane when he is hacked on the arm By B1 as he is gathering the ball. Coach B is immediately asking me what B1 did. After reporting the foul, I explained the call to him. He huffs and stomps off yelling, "That was a WEAK foul!!!" I took it as directed at me and my call (and possibly inciting his already boisterous crowd). After meeting with my partner and going over the foul shooting order, etc., Coach B called me over (calmly) and contended that he was yelling at his player. Until that moment I had not considered that as a possibility. I explained the way I perceived it and we moved on. After that we had a better game.

In of itself, "that's a weak call," is nothing in my books. I don't think it's a comment that's personal. Now with the theatrics that you mentioned, plus the inciting of the crowd, I wouldn't have a problem with the call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by APG

In of itself, "that's a weak call," is nothing in my books. I don't think it's a comment that's personal. Now with the theatrics that you mentioned, plus the inciting of the crowd, I wouldn't have a problem with the call.

For me, the comment alone would get rung. It's no different than "that's a middle school call."

[APG]

Originally Posted by Adam

For me, the comment alone would get rung. It's no different than "that's a middle school call."

If we're talking about statements in of themselves, I don't see this being the same. This statement can a coach's backhanded attempt at saying one's officiating abilities are not par for the game and that one does not belong in a game. A coach saying a call is weak, in my books, it the same as him saying a call is bad.

[deecee]

I don't think the comment alone is T worthy, my opinion. It's the same if a coach says "that was an awful call", "that call stunk". Just the comment is simple venting. How they say it and what they do are different, but if I just heard those statements as is I wouldn't T them up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by APG

If we're talking about statements in of themselves, I don't see this being the same. This statement can a coach's backhanded attempt at saying one's officiating abilities are not par for the game and that one does not belong in a game. A coach saying a call is weak, in my books, it the same as him saying a call is bad.

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't think the comment alone is T worthy, my opinion. It's the same if a coach says "that was an awful call", "that call stunk". Just the comment is simple venting. How they say it and what they do are different, but if I just heard those statements as is I wouldn't T them up.

I really don't see the difference, but I'd have to hear it in the game to say for sure. I'll say this, though, the odds of me calling this in a middle school game are almost 100%.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

May have kicked a technical foul last night. Very competitive MS boys game. B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials. A1 is driving across the lane when he is hacked on the arm By B1 as he is gathering the ball. Coach B is immediately asking me what B1 did. After reporting the foul, I explained the call to him. He huffs and stomps off yelling, "That was a WEAK foul!!!" I took it as directed at me and my call (and possibly inciting his already boisterous crowd). After meeting with my partner and going over the foul shooting order, etc., Coach B called me over (calmly) and contended that he was yelling at his player. Until that moment I had not considered that as a possibility. I explained the way I perceived it and we moved on. After that we had a better game.

T.

Coaches don't act that way towards their players.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

May have kicked a technical foul last night. Very competitive MS boys game. B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials. A1 is driving across the lane when he is hacked on the arm By B1 as he is gathering the ball. Coach B is immediately asking me what B1 did. After reporting the foul, I explained the call to him. He huffs and stomps off yelling, "That was a WEAK foul!!!" I took it as directed at me and my call (and possibly inciting his already boisterous crowd). After meeting with my partner and going over the foul shooting order, etc., Coach B called me over (calmly) and contended that he was yelling at his player. Until that moment I had not considered that as a possibility. I explained the way I perceived it and we moved on. After that we had a better game.

I love how coaches and players will take a swipe at officiating/calls and claim they were talking to their team. If a coach says to his player "the refs suck." How is that any different than if it is said to your face?

On this play, I would only advise the following. If you KNOW that you got the play right (foul) then my tolerance for objection goes WAY down. If it was a tough play, then I will let the coach vent if done so professionally. The stomping around is unacceptable bench decorum and the T is warranted on those merits alone. Not to mention, you are having issues with the crowd and poor coach behavior only incites the crowd and makes it worse. I think you did the right thing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Tio

I love how coaches and players will take a swipe at officiating/calls and claim they were talking to their team. If a coach says to his player "the refs suck." How is that any different than if it is said to your face?

Jim Valvano: "Can I get a technical foul for what I'm thinking?"
Hank Nichols: "No."
Jim Valvano: "That's good, because I think you stink."

USATODAY.com - Technical foul calls gone wild