The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 188
backcourt or play on?

A1, while dribbling in his/her frontcourt, has the ball tipped toward the backcourt by B1. A2, standing in the backcourt, catches the tipped ball before it contacts the playing court. Play on, correct? (rule is the same for both FED & NCAA, although each rulebook articulates a bit differently)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:44pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
By an idiotic interpretation laid out by NFHS, this would be a backcourt violation.

2007-2008 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 10: A1, in the team's frontcourt, passes to A2, also in the team's frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A's backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A's frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A's backcourt, but never having touched in Team A's backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A's backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1; 4-4-3; 9-9-1)

Now, whether that's actually how this play getting called...that's a different issue.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.


Last edited by APG; Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 06:54pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 188
doesn't A have to be the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt? are they saying when A2 caught the tipped ball, he was touching it both in the frontcourt and the backcourt at the same time?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:53pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray View Post
doesn't A have to be he last to touch the ball in the frontcourt? are they saying when A2 caught the tipped ball, he was touching it both in the frontcourt and the backcourt at the same time?
NFHS is saying A2 was the last to touch the ball while the ball had frontcourt status...and first to touch the ball after the ball achieved a backcourt status...at the same time.

As I told you, it's an idiotic interpretation that doesn't make sense, and you'll find most on the board probably trash it (and some my not enforce it). It's best not to try and get in the minds of those that write the NFHS interpretations sometimes.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 07:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 574
fellas, my reading of the interp/case book post, is that the ball STILL had front court status (it never touch the backcourt) until A2 touched it while standing in the backcourt.

that is a backcourt violation.

if,in the OP or in the case book post, A2 had simply let the ball bounce in the backcourt BEFORE touching it, all would be OK...since A2 touched it prior to the ball touching the backcourt, now we've got the violation.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 07:45pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
For more reading:

New interps Sitch # 10

2007-08 NFHS Supplemental Rules Interpreations: SITUATION 10.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 08:00pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocentsworth View Post
fellas, my reading of the interp/case book post, is that the ball STILL had front court status (it never touch the backcourt) until A2 touched it while standing in the backcourt.

that is a backcourt violation.

if,in the OP or in the case book post, A2 had simply let the ball bounce in the backcourt BEFORE touching it, all would be OK...since A2 touched it prior to the ball touching the backcourt, now we've got the violation.
The interpretation is saying that Team A was both the last to touch and first to touch...at the exact same time. The rule says they must be the last to touch BEFORE the ball goes into the backcourt.

9-9
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

And if you look at the interpretations justification, it says that Team A caused the ball to have backcourt status...which doesn't make sense because it's never a violation to cause the ball to have a backcourt status or we'd whistle violations the minute the ball entered the backcourt from the frontcourt on other backcourt plays.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 09:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Western, Pa
Posts: 80
That would be the same type of ruling as when a1 is standing out of bounds and b1 throws the ball off of him while b1 still has "oncourt" status. A was the person last to touch the ball so it now becomes B's ball.
I see this type of play mostly on throw-ins where b1 deflects the pass from a1 back into the body of the thrower.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 26, 2012, 09:23pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend View Post
That would be the same type of ruling as when a1 is standing out of bounds and b1 throws the ball off of him while b1 still has "oncourt" status. A was the person last to touch the ball so it now becomes B's ball.
I see this type of play mostly on throw-ins where b1 deflects the pass from a1 back into the body of the thrower.
Except they aren't the same. It's a violation to cause the ball to be out of bounds. It's not a violation to cause the ball to have a backcourt status.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 27, 2012, 12:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,078
The rule and the "situation" disagree (as others have said). The rule has been the same for a very long time and I don't know anyone that ever thought such a play was a violation. The publication of that situation was the first time anyone ever even suggested such a ruling. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't agree with the actual rule. I go with the rule.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 27, 2012, 06:30am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,867
Watch Me Pull A Rabbit Out Of My Hat ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray View Post
When A2 caught the tipped ball, he was touching it both in the frontcourt and the backcourt at the same time?
Neat trick. Now for my next trick:

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 27, 2012, 06:34am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,867
It's True, It's True ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by legend View Post
That would be the same type of ruling as when a1 is standing out of bounds and b1 throws the ball off of him while b1 still has "oncourt" status. A was the person last to touch the ball so it now becomes B's ball.
Which reminds me of a play from back in the olden days. On an inbounds play, thrower-in-er A1 throws an inbounds pass that first touches B1 who is out of bounds. Back in the mid-twentieth century, this was a throwin violation, and the ball went to Team B, out of bounds, at a spot at the original throwin.

I'm pretty sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm or deny this old interpretation.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 29, 2012, 07:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
9.9.1 Sit C--legal play

This casebook play is not exactly the same but it very close with the same potential violation/legal play. This casebook play leans toward the common sense approach that many are of the previous posters are saying should be the answer.
9.9.1 C: A1 is dribbling in the backcourt and throws a pass to the frontcourt. While standing in A's frontcourt: (b) B3 touches the ball and deflects it back to A's backcourt. A2 recovers in the backcourt. Legal play.
This doesn't stipulate whether or not the ball touches the court before the ball is touched in the backcourt.
NFHS 2012-2013 9.9.1 Sit C
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 29, 2012, 07:53pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyKatsFan View Post
This casebook play is not exactly the same but it very close with the same potential violation/legal play. This casebook play leans toward the common sense approach that many are of the previous posters are saying should be the answer.
9.9.1 C: A1 is dribbling in the backcourt and throws a pass to the frontcourt. While standing in A's frontcourt: (b) B3 touches the ball and deflects it back to A's backcourt. A2 recovers in the backcourt. Legal play.
This doesn't stipulate whether or not the ball touches the court before the ball is touched in the backcourt.
NFHS 2012-2013 9.9.1 Sit C
Which is in direct contradiction to the reasoning given in the infamous interpretation.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 29, 2012, 07:53pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
The case book play specifically states the ball was hit back into the backcourt before the A player retrieved the ball. It does so because the ball the ball gained a frontcourt status from the B deflection and doesn't gain a backcourt status until the ball is touched by something in the backcourt (which it didn't state) or it touches the floor (including the midcourt line) in the backcourt. The interpretation already states that an A player would have to wait for the ball to hit in the backcourt before they could be the first to touch.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.


Last edited by APG; Mon Oct 29, 2012 at 07:57pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backcourt Violation Play APG Basketball 66 Sun Jan 22, 2012 09:18pm
Another Backcourt Question, in bounds play! jritchie Basketball 11 Thu Dec 02, 2010 05:03pm
Public Address announcer/ Play by play Terrapins Fan Basketball 34 Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:20pm
Inbounds play backcourt no call hbioteach Basketball 9 Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:38pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1