Questions for the Forum

[bob jenkins]

I assume he means "Start, Develop, Finish" and, imo, block/charge is a SDF play, so I don't understand the first question.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I assume he means "Start, Develop, Finish" and, imo, block/charge is a SDF play, so I don't understand the first question.

That is what I thought and I also do not understand the question either.

Peace

[tref]

Start develop finish plays require a patient whistle, no?

Do you use the same patient whistle for block/charge plays?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

Start develop finish plays require a patient whistle, no?

Do you use the same patient whistle for block/charge plays?

I think most plays require a patient whistle when it involves contact.

Peace

[rockyroad]

I am a little confused here also...so what "plays" do you NOT officiate as Start-Develop-Finish plays???

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tref

Start develop finish plays require a patient whistle, no?

Do you use the same patient whistle for block/charge plays?

Yes.

Why would you not?

I think "all" plays are SDF.

I think "all" plays require a patient whistle.

So, while it's logically true that SCF plays require a patient whistle, phrasing it like that just seems confusing to me.

[Camron Rust]

I think that what the tref is trying to ask is about the difference between plays where the defender is tracking the dribbler/shooter through the play, which is certainly an SDF play, vs. intersecting with the dribbler/shooter with a collision. The latter really doesn't have three separate phases. It all happens at once. Boom. Nothing to see develop or finish.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think that what the tref is trying to ask is about the difference between plays where the defender is tracking the dribbler/shooter through the play, which is certainly an SDF play, vs. intersecting with the dribbler/shooter with a collision. The latter really doesn't have three separate phases. It all happens at once. Boom. Nothing to see develop or finish.

Yes Camron, I believe that a patient whistle is the best practice on SDF plays to the basket.

But on a bang-bang block/charge play at L (when you're the only official with a call) is it best to make a quick, strong decision (when you're certain the defender did/didnt obtain LGP)? Or do you practice the patient whistle there too?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think that what the tref is trying to ask is about the difference between plays where the defender is tracking the dribbler/shooter through the play, which is certainly an SDF play, vs. intersecting with the dribbler/shooter with a collision. The latter really doesn't have three separate phases. It all happens at once. Boom. Nothing to see develop or finish.

Start, develop and finish does not always involve contact the entire way. The start might be the initial move and then the middle is the start of the first contact. Usually there is a close defender or someone closing before any contact. If you are refereeing the defense, you can anticipate some contact, but wait to call a foul if necessary.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

The play (usually) happens more quickly (that is, there's less time between start and finish), but the concept is still valid.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think that what the tref is trying to ask is about the difference between plays where the defender is tracking the dribbler/shooter through the play, which is certainly an SDF play, vs. intersecting with the dribbler/shooter with a collision. The latter really doesn't have three separate phases. It all happens at once. Boom. Nothing to see develop or finish.

BINGO! ...and this is a BIG pre-game disucussion. (3-Whistle) Who is going to take the big block/charge in the key? The T/C that started with the player going to the hoop? The L that has the "play" right in front of him, and probably had the secondary defender get in a position to "take the charge"?

We usually go old school around these parts...if it's coming at you as L...you get first shot at the call...while the T/C may come up with a fist...they are patient with the signal. (DO NOT WANT A BLARGE)

When I am Lead I usually don't have a "patient whistle" as discussed in the OP concerning a block/charge. I see the play, I come out with a big "BOOM", a signal and away we go.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

We usually go old school around these parts...if it's coming at you as L, you get first shot at the call, while the T/C may come up with a fist, they are patient with the signal. (DO NOT WANT A BLARGE)

That's the way we handle it here in my little corner of the Provisions State. And it certainly is old school because we've been doing it this way for over thirty years. I'm not saying that it's the right way, or the best way, it's just the way we do it around here.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

When I am Lead I usually don't have a "patient whistle" as discussed in the OP concerning a block/charge. I see the play, I come out with a big "BOOM", a signal and away we go.

You don't actually yell "BOOM", do you?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

BINGO! ...and this is a BIG pre-game disucussion. (3-Whistle) Who is going to take the big block/charge in the key? The T/C that started with the player going to the hoop? The L that has the "play" right in front of him, and probably had the secondary defender get in a position to "take the charge"?

We usually go old school around these parts...if it's coming at you as L...you get first shot at the call...while the T/C may come up with a fist...they are patient with the signal. (DO NOT WANT A BLARGE)

When I am Lead I usually don't have a "patient whistle" as discussed in the OP concerning a block/charge. I see the play, I come out with a big "BOOM", a signal and away we go.

IMO, L should have a patient whistle and, more importantly, a patient call / signal on this play.

It's more difficult to do (for whatever reason) as L than as T/C. So, just because T/C hold is no reason for L to jump in early (or "get the first shot at the call").

[tref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

When I am Lead I usually don't have a "patient whistle" as discussed in the OP concerning a block/charge. I see the play, I come out with a big "BOOM", a signal and away we go.

Ahhh 300+ views later & I finally get an answer to "the question."
Thanks!!
Patient whistle is your practice on SDF plays to the basket, but you make a strong, immediate decision on B/C plays as the L. Same here, I dont think those two plays are in the same category.

The reason for the question was because I had a conversation with an official about me allowing the defender to fall to the ground before blowing my whistle. Keep in mind this was a transition outlet from the division line to the FT line extended (no dribble) basket attack. My partners had not crossed the division line yet.

My thoughts were, I refereed the defense & never had him obtaining LGP prior to the contact... so what am I waiting for???

I guess its all about who one is learning from. In the womens game I know the L allows the T/C first crack, but the principle is opposite in the mens game.