Association Culture ...

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why not?

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game.

So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive. Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game. So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

Most junior varsity games, here in my little corner of the Provisions State, start at 5:30 p.m., with varsity games starting at 7:00 p.m. The longest trip that we could have to get to a game in our "little corner" is a little less than an hour, so an average trip is probably about thirty minutes. I'll leave work at 5:00 p.m., get to the game site at 5:30 p.m., observe three quarters of the junior varsity game, head for the dressing room at the beginning of the fourth period, toss the jump ball for my varsity game at 7:00 p.m., end the game around 8:15 p.m., shower, and either head home, or head to one of our local "watering holes", getting there around 8:45 p.m.

$89.76 for four hours of travel, observations, and running up and down a basketball court. Can't beat it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Most junior varsity games, here in my little corner of the Provisions State, start at 5:30 p.m., with varsity games starting at 7:00 p.m. The longest trip that we could have to get to a game in our "little corner" is a little less than an hour, so an average trip is probably about thirty minutes. I'll leave work at 5:00 p.m., get to the game site at 5:30 p.m., observe three quarters of the junior varsity game, head for the dressing room at the beginning of the fourth period, toss the jump ball for my varsity game at 7:00 p.m., end the game around 8:15 p.m., shower, and either head home, or head to one of our local "watering holes", getting there around 8:45 p.m.

$89.76 for four hours of travel, observations, and running up and down a basketball court. Can't beat it.

Glad it works there. It wouldn't work here.

We work a GV/BV doubleheader and get $85, no travel. My $85 would be for 8 hours or travel, observations and running up and down a basketball court. No way am I leaving at 3pm to get back home at 10:30-11:00.

[JRutledge]

We are usually asked to get to a game an hour before our scheduled game time if working a varsity contest. Usually not entirely difficult to accomplish as most games start at 7:30 or even 7:00. It is easier to get to some places than others obviously and we are not assigned by an association. So there are assignors will consider that before making assignments. My personal goal is to try to get to the site when the game before me starts, but not possible based on where I have to go in many cases.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Glad it works there.

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I observed a young official work a game with shoes that were almost as much white, as black. I mentioned it to him after his game. He explained to me that the black and whites were not his regular pair, and that he almost always wore all black shoes. The next time I observed him, he had on the same black and white shoes. I've also observed young officials show up for a game in street clothes consisting of torn sneakers, dirty, beat-up jeans, and a T-shirt, certainly not business casual.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I observed a young official work a game with shoes that were almost as much white, as black. I mentioned it to him after his game. He explained to me that the black and whites were not his regular pair, and that he almost always wore all black shoes. The next time I observed him, he had on the same black and white shoes. I've also observed young officials show up for a game in street clothes consisting of torn sneakers, dirty, beat-up jeans, and a T-shirt, certainly not business casual.

Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go. Also, if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go. Also, if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

I agree. I have no desire to watch 3/4 of a JV game every time I'm onside to work a varsity contest. If a JV official wants me to evaluate him, he should ask me and I would happily do so.

Otherwise, we arrive at 6:30 for a 7:30 start and about half the time I go straight to the locker room to warm up and dress. Depending on the game and the officials I may watch a quarter of the JV game, but that's up to me.

Perhaps your local customs are too onerous and it's time to figure out what's really important. Many people have jobs and need to stay at the office as long as they can. This is an avocation, which is one step up from a hobby, for many people.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

Thus the purpose of me being asked to write this article for our local newsletter. Our local board got too big, too quick, and customs somehow didn't get passed down from "father to son".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go.

One "custom" that can't go, without major revisions in our rating, and ranking, process, is the "custom" of varsity officials arriving early to observe the junior varsity game, and junior varsity officials sticking around to observe the varsity game. Each official at the site (usually four here in Connecticut) is responsible to evaluate, and rate, the other officials at the site. It's pretty difficult to evaluate and rate when you don't observe an official.

Regarding the other customs, confirming games, business casual dress, proper uniform, leaving site together, etc., in my personal opinion, and in the opinion of our local leadership, those are worth keeping. I know that the economy is bad, and I know that more than just a few officials think of officiating as a supplemental part time job, but as a thirty-plus year veteran, who is very proud of our local board, I just don't like the "get in, get out, get paid" attitude. In my personal opinion, basketball officiating, particularly on the high school level, should be more than just "get in, get out, get paid". Obviously some of our new guys don't agree with me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

One "custom" that can't go, without major revisions in our rating, and ranking, process, is the "custom" of varsity officials arriving early to observe the junior varsity game, and junior varsity officials sticking around to observe the varsity game. Each official at the site (usually four here in Connecticut) is responsible to evaluate, and rate, the other officials at the site. It's pretty difficult to evaluate and rate when you don't observe an official.

We are considering some major changes in our rating system. We are considering not allowing new junior varsity officials (first year, second year, maybe third year) to rate varsity officials. However, they should probably stick around to observe the varsity guys, even if they don't have to rate them, they might learn something.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I was referring to your system of evaluating fellow officials and showing up in the 1st quarter of the JV game.

You don't have retired officials or board officers who could conduct evaluations, especially on newer members.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I was referring to your system of evaluating fellow officials and showing up in the 1st quarter of the JV game.

Showing up for the jump ball of the junior varsity game is strictly voluntary, although many of us try to do it. Varsity officials are expected to be there at the start of the second period, observe two periods of the junior varsity game, and then retreat to the dressing room at the beginning of the junior varsity fourth period.

Back more than thirty years ago, when I started, junior varsity games pretty much universally started at 6:00 p.m., and varsity games started at 7:30 p.m. Today, most junior varsity games start at 5:30 p.m., and most varsity games start at 7:00 p.m.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You don't have retired officials or board officers who could conduct evaluations, especially on newer members.

We've thought about it, but the numbers just don't add up. Too many active officials. Too many schools. Too many games. Not enough interested retired officials. Not enough money to give retired officials a stipend to evaluate talent. We've had problems just trying to set up a few mentor-mentee pairings.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game.

So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

2-3 hours? just to get there by the 2nd Q? I can leave 2 hours before several of my games and get to the site by the start of the JV game. If I left 3 hours before my game, I'd almost get there in plenty of time to dress for the JV game and be on the court at 15:00, even for games an hour away.

It seems that your JV to Varsity separation may be a bit larger than here. Ours are never more than 1:45 apart and sometimes 1:30.

I consider getting there during the 2nd Q (most of the time) to be my buffer against the random unexpected traffic problems. As soon as I try to get the 30-40 minutes before game time (which would get me there about halftime of the JV game), I'd be certain to hit traffic and arrive late.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

2-3 hours? just to get there by the 2nd Q?

You didn't read what I wrote.

"Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Example: My game starts at 6pm and is a 1:15 drive. I would leave at 4:00 as to arrive 45 minutes before game time. Usually we're traveling as a crew so there's plenty of time to talk basketball. I'm not in a metropolitan area, so I don't have traffic concerns.

To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter of the JV game, I would have to leave by 3pm.

JV game starts at 4pm. They typically end around 5:30 but there's always the ocassional long game or OT. At 5:40, 15 minutes goes on the game clock. At 5:55 we have the National Anthem and introdi=uction so we can toss the ball at 6pm.

So yes, leaving 3 hours before MY scheduled game time of 6pm is excessive and I would not do it.