Association Culture ...

[BktBallRef]

Nice article, certainly reasonable expectations except...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game.

Really???

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Nice article, certainly reasonable expectations except...



Really???

Why not?

It is recommended that we arrive about 1 hour before game time....which would would usually be somewhere between time the JV 2nd Q starts to somewhere in the middle of the 2nd Q.

Not everyone does that (some cut it to less than 30 minutes), but it is the expectation for varsity games.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why not?

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game.

So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive. Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game. So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

Most junior varsity games, here in my little corner of the Provisions State, start at 5:30 p.m., with varsity games starting at 7:00 p.m. The longest trip that we could have to get to a game in our "little corner" is a little less than an hour, so an average trip is probably about thirty minutes. I'll leave work at 5:00 p.m., get to the game site at 5:30 p.m., observe three quarters of the junior varsity game, head for the dressing room at the beginning of the fourth period, toss the jump ball for my varsity game at 7:00 p.m., end the game around 8:15 p.m., shower, and either head home, or head to one of our local "watering holes", getting there around 8:45 p.m.

$89.76 for four hours of travel, observations, and running up and down a basketball court. Can't beat it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Most junior varsity games, here in my little corner of the Provisions State, start at 5:30 p.m., with varsity games starting at 7:00 p.m. The longest trip that we could have to get to a game in our "little corner" is a little less than an hour, so an average trip is probably about thirty minutes. I'll leave work at 5:00 p.m., get to the game site at 5:30 p.m., observe three quarters of the junior varsity game, head for the dressing room at the beginning of the fourth period, toss the jump ball for my varsity game at 7:00 p.m., end the game around 8:15 p.m., shower, and either head home, or head to one of our local "watering holes", getting there around 8:45 p.m.

$89.76 for four hours of travel, observations, and running up and down a basketball court. Can't beat it.

Glad it works there. It wouldn't work here.

We work a GV/BV doubleheader and get $85, no travel. My $85 would be for 8 hours or travel, observations and running up and down a basketball court. No way am I leaving at 3pm to get back home at 10:30-11:00.

[JRutledge]

We are usually asked to get to a game an hour before our scheduled game time if working a varsity contest. Usually not entirely difficult to accomplish as most games start at 7:30 or even 7:00. It is easier to get to some places than others obviously and we are not assigned by an association. So there are assignors will consider that before making assignments. My personal goal is to try to get to the site when the game before me starts, but not possible based on where I have to go in many cases.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Glad it works there.

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I observed a young official work a game with shoes that were almost as much white, as black. I mentioned it to him after his game. He explained to me that the black and whites were not his regular pair, and that he almost always wore all black shoes. The next time I observed him, he had on the same black and white shoes. I've also observed young officials show up for a game in street clothes consisting of torn sneakers, dirty, beat-up jeans, and a T-shirt, certainly not business casual.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I observed a young official work a game with shoes that were almost as much white, as black. I mentioned it to him after his game. He explained to me that the black and whites were not his regular pair, and that he almost always wore all black shoes. The next time I observed him, he had on the same black and white shoes. I've also observed young officials show up for a game in street clothes consisting of torn sneakers, dirty, beat-up jeans, and a T-shirt, certainly not business casual.

Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go. Also, if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I was referring to your system of evaluating fellow officials and showing up in the 1st quarter of the JV game.

You don't have retired officials or board officers who could conduct evaluations, especially on newer members.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game.

So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

2-3 hours? just to get there by the 2nd Q? I can leave 2 hours before several of my games and get to the site by the start of the JV game. If I left 3 hours before my game, I'd almost get there in plenty of time to dress for the JV game and be on the court at 15:00, even for games an hour away.

It seems that your JV to Varsity separation may be a bit larger than here. Ours are never more than 1:45 apart and sometimes 1:30.

I consider getting there during the 2nd Q (most of the time) to be my buffer against the random unexpected traffic problems. As soon as I try to get the 30-40 minutes before game time (which would get me there about halftime of the JV game), I'd be certain to hit traffic and arrive late.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

2-3 hours? just to get there by the 2nd Q?

You didn't read what I wrote.

"Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Example: My game starts at 6pm and is a 1:15 drive. I would leave at 4:00 as to arrive 45 minutes before game time. Usually we're traveling as a crew so there's plenty of time to talk basketball. I'm not in a metropolitan area, so I don't have traffic concerns.

To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter of the JV game, I would have to leave by 3pm.

JV game starts at 4pm. They typically end around 5:30 but there's always the ocassional long game or OT. At 5:40, 15 minutes goes on the game clock. At 5:55 we have the National Anthem and introdi=uction so we can toss the ball at 6pm.

So yes, leaving 3 hours before MY scheduled game time of 6pm is excessive and I would not do it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You didn't read what I wrote.

"Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Example: My game starts at 6pm and is a 1:15 drive. I would leave at 4:00 as to arrive 45 minutes before game time. Usually we're traveling as a crew so there's plenty of time to talk basketball. I'm not in a metropolitan area, so I don't have traffic concerns.

To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter of the JV game, I would have to leave by 3pm.

JV game starts at 4pm. They typically end around 5:30 but there's always the ocassional long game or OT. At 5:40, 15 minutes goes on the game clock. At 5:55 we have the National Anthem and introdi=uction so we can toss the ball at 6pm.

So yes, leaving 3 hours before MY scheduled game time of 6pm is excessive and I would not do it.

I did read what you wrote....it appears we're working under a different set of assumptions that were not clear to me.

I was commenting on a JV game usually starting 1.5 hours before and you were talking about a 2 hour separation (it seems).

You were talking about doing a pregame in route where I was under the assumption you'd meet at the game site....as is the case 99% of the time here.

You're not in a metro area, I am (and most officials are...a majority of the people in the US live in urban areas). Due the unpredictability, I'm a lot more comfortable targeting arrival 1 hour before....leaves time for problems...and I have used up so much time on occasion that I still arrive 30 minutes before tipoff.

All that said, I'd agree with you that getting there by the start of the 2nd Q under your circumstances is a bit excessive.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The four officials at a high school game site should work together as a team. Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game. Junior varsity officials should stay and observe the varsity game until at least halftime of the varsity game in order to learn by watching experienced officials. Many varsity officials try to show up for the beginning of the junior varsity game, and many junior varsity officials will often stay to observe the entire varsity game. The overlap will insure that an official is available if one of the officials at the site becomes ill, or injured. Board XXX expects veteran officials to observe and offer constructive appraisals, with specific suggestions, to less experienced officials. Board XXX expects less experienced officials to seek out, and ask for input, from the more experienced officials. Partners are expected to offer constructive appraisals to each other. “What did you see?” is an easy way to start a post-game conversation.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Really???

Yes. The way our rating, and ranking, system works, each official rates the other three officials at the site (remember Connecticut is a two person game state). If you don't observe, how can you fairly rate?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes. The way our rating, and ranking, system works, each official rates the other three officials at the site (remember Connecticut is a two person game state). If you don't observe, how can you fairly rate?

Here, V officials are expected to arrive an hour before game time, which typically gets them there in time for the half-time mid-game discussion. HS subvarsity, 45 minutes, but 30 minutes isn't going to get you in trouble (especially in Freshman games). If a JV official wants an evaluation, it's his or her responsibility to contact one of the varsity officials working the following game and ask them to come in time to watch the first half.

JV officials are expected to stick around for the first half of the varsity game, although skipping out out on this a few times a year won't get you in trouble.