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Yup...my mistake.
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He had to jump off either one foot or both feet to land in a 1,2 manner. The question is did he catch/end his dribble with a)both feet on floor b) both feet off of floor 3) left foot on floor 4) right foot on floor. This is where the debate is: 1) If you stop video on Gasol at :25 it appears that both feet are on floor and dribble is caught/controlled. Although left foot is barely touching. This happens so fast that there is no way to say for sure that left foot was touching, it would be a guess. But I think it is very easy to say ball is controlled with right foot on floor. So I would go with ending dribble with one foot on floor(right foot). 2) after ending dribble with right foot on floor he jumps off of this foot and lands non-simultaneously(1,2). Here again , this happens so fast that it is very difficult to determine and this is hardly called (I wouldn't call the 1,2 landing). 3) after the questionable landing he pivots off of left foot. Here is where I think you have to blow the whistle. I give leeway until this point. I think the question always goes back to when the dribble ends and where the feet are. This is almost always impossible to determine exactly. I think most good officials give serious leeway here. Just like on the Euro step here, very hard to say for sure when he gathered, only in slow motion could I tell. Last edited by jump stop; Fri Aug 17, 2012 at 09:28am. |
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First one looks clean, or clean enought that I would not call it at full speed.
Second one made me go "Woah", which means IMO it is a clear travel. I see A1 gather, establish a pivot foot by spinning, then leap off that pivot foot and take two separate steps. Travel. If those two steps had been a simultaneous landing then you have a jump stop. But they weren't, and you don't. Just my .02. |
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What we don't know is how these particular FIBA officials were instructed to call the game. Knowing that the court is full of NBA players, and NBA habits die hard, was any leeway given that leaned toward the NBA rule? I can think of a few anecdotal moments during the Olympics that would suggest otherwise, but I have to wonder if much of this comes down to instructions. BTW, my "travel radar" went off when I watched play #1 on TV. I don't recall the second travel, but that one looks more obvious to me.
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Peace
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Heck, to take your thinking further, with plenty of NBA talent on the floor, then the officials should have been instructed to allow defenders to play post defense like what is allowed in the NBA (use of forearm and hand depending on where the offensive player is), but Tyson Chandler was routinely in foul trouble the whole tournament because, for whatever reason, a forearm seemed to be an automatic foul, even w/o any clear advantage gained.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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APG, you don't think using a forearm is an advantage to the defender? Have you ever played basketball? Different assigners and leagues want different things called but of course it is an advantage. As an official you call what your boss tells you to call but don't ever think that using a forearm is not an advantage.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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Sure it is. Why else would defenders prefer to use it? The only distinction is that in some levels/leagues, it is deemed to be a legal advantage and in others it is deemed to be an illegal advantage.
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Just going to have to disagree with you there.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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Why do defenders want to use it if it is not an advantage?
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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the forearm/arm bar is not illegal unless used to guide or impede the progress of a dribbler.
use of forearm on dribbler as long as it is collapsed (not extended) is legal as it is within the frame of the body while performing normal defensive movement and is not initiating the contact |
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__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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The whole purpose of the arm bar is to impede the progress of an opponent. It has no other purpose. To say otherwise is simply silly. You can certainly argue whether the advantage it provides should be a foul or not, but you can't honestly say it doesn't impede the opponent or give the defender an advantage.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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