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Old Sun Dec 11, 2005, 11:26pm
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I coach a girl's summer team and subscribe to the power post approach. I teach my posts to drop step without dribbling. Many of their high school coaches differ and tell them they are travelling, eventhough the very same officials that call the summer games referee the high school games.

With regards to the my* drop step, it's rarely called a travel, but I can't find any rules that say why it's legal. I teach the drop step as follows: After catching the ball with both feet on the ground, 1) immediately chin or forehead the ball with elbows out; 2) drop with the baseline foot to the basket; 3) bring the other foot around and put it on the floor; and 4) jump off both feet and shoot.

When I am asked why the move isn't a travel by my players, I don't know what to say. Thanks for any help.

* I've seen lots of literature and video that show jumping off the dropping foot, without putting the other foot on the floor first.
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2005, 11:46pm
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Coach,

Do you have an NFHS rule book? If so, look up traveling. It gives very detailed descriptions of what you can and cannot do. If I am understanding what you describe, here is how it works. Your player can choose either foot to use as a pivot foot after they initially gain control of the ball.

Their first move is fine. But if I understand your description, your player then lifts the pivot foot and puts it to the floor again. When the pivot foot is lifted and then returned to the floor, traveling has occurred.

You would really do yourself a favor by getting an NFHS rules book and studying it.

Z
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2005, 11:50pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
I coach a girl's summer team and subscribe to the power post approach. I teach my posts to drop step without dribbling. Many of their high school coaches differ and tell them they are travelling, eventhough the very same officials that call the summer games referee the high school games.

With regards to the my* drop step, it's rarely called a travel, but I can't find any rules that say why it's legal. I teach the drop step as follows: After catching the ball with both feet on the ground, 1) immediately chin or forehead the ball with elbows out; 2) drop with the baseline foot to the basket; 3) bring the other foot around and put it on the floor; and 4) jump off both feet and shoot.

When I am asked why the move isn't a travel by my players, I don't know what to say. Thanks for any help.

* I've seen lots of literature and video that show jumping off the dropping foot, without putting the other foot on the floor first.
Hate to say it coach but you're teaching your kids to travel. After catching the ball with both feet on the ground, when one foot is lifted the other becomes the pivot foot. Once the pivot foot is lifted and returned to the floor, the player has travelled.
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2005, 11:51pm
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SECTION 44 TRAVELING

Traveling (running with the ball) is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:

ART. 1 . . . A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor, may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.

ART. 2 . . . A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:

a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:

1. Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

b. If one foot is on the floor:

1. It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

ART. 3 . . . After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

ART. 4 . . . After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:

a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

ART. 5 . . . A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2005, 11:52pm
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Thx Z:

I agree, it's a travel by the book, but it's rarely called.

Further, back in my college days at the University of Texas, I accidentally walked in Lady Longhorn practice and this is how Jody Conradt was teaching it. I've also noticed some of the teams we play with parger post doing the same thing

So if I understand you correctly, you feel it is a travel.

P.S. - I'm not just interested in the NFHS interpretation, most AAU tournaments use NCAA Women's Rules.

Agani, thanks
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2005, 11:58pm
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To all the other posters thank you as well. I have read that section of the rules many times and as I stated above, I read that it is a travel. Now, I stress to my players that the move must be made immediately upon the catch - one could read that the "dropping" foot is in the air, moving to the basket on the catch. Does catching the ball with the baseline foot in the air change anything. If I read the above rules correctly, then the foot on the ground at the time of the catch is still the pivot foot, right or wrong?

Thanks
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 12:00am
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Travel

It's a travel at all levels......although it may not be called in the NBA if the offending player is a veteran making over $10 million.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 12:13am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
To all the other posters thank you as well. I have read that section of the rules many times and as I stated above, I read that it is a travel. Now, I stress to my players that the move must be made immediately upon the catch - one could read that the "dropping" foot is in the air, moving to the basket on the catch. Does catching the ball with the baseline foot in the air change anything. If I read the above rules correctly, then the foot on the ground at the time of the catch is still the pivot foot, right or wrong?

Thanks
If one foot is on the floor it becomes the pivot foot when the other comes down.

So for this to be legal that drop step needs to occur during the catch, thus making it the pivot foot.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 12:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
Thx Z:

I agree, it's a travel by the book, but it's rarely called.

Again, thanks
That's very surprising to me because it's not only a travel, but it also would look "ugly." That would even be called by officials who base traveling calls on things that "don't look right."

Z
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 12:30am
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Blind Zebra, please clarify for me so that I may teach it correctly.

****

You stated : If one foot is on the floor it becomes the pivot foot when the other comes down.

So for this to be legal that drop step needs to occur during the catch, thus making it the pivot foot.

****

Are you saying that if the player catches the ball with the baseline foot off the ground (i.e. stepping to the basket), that foot (the dropping/baseline foot) is the pivot foot when it is placed on the ground and thus the other foot is able to move freely?

This seems to contradict Rule 44.2.b.1 where I read that the foot on the ground at the time of the cath is the pivot foot.

I am sure I am misunderstanding you, but your clarification is greatly apreciated

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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 12:36am
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Zebraman,

Its called maybe 1 in 100 times when they do it in one motion with the catch. Most of the time a ref calls it traveling is when they catch it flat footed, pause a second to find the defense and then go.

I stress catching the ball while moving (which I didn't really discuss in my initial post) and jumping off both feet immediately - no hesitations,
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 01:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
Blind Zebra, please clarify for me so that I may teach it correctly.

****

You stated : If one foot is on the floor it becomes the pivot foot when the other comes down.

So for this to be legal that drop step needs to occur during the catch, thus making it the pivot foot.

****

Are you saying that if the player catches the ball with the baseline foot off the ground (i.e. stepping to the basket), that foot (the dropping/baseline foot) is the pivot foot when it is placed on the ground and thus the other foot is able to move freely?

This seems to contradict Rule 44.2.b.1 where I read that the foot on the ground at the time of the cath is the pivot foot.

I am sure I am misunderstanding you, but your clarification is greatly apreciated

No, I'm saying the drop step needs to occur before they complete the catch. Doing that means it is the only foot on the floor or both feet are on the floor, so that when the other foot steps it would not be the pivot foot in either case.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 01:11am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
Thx Z:

I agree, it's a travel by the book, but it's rarely called.
If it happens in my game, it's damn sure a traveling violation.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 01:21am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
I coach a girl's summer team and subscribe to the power post approach. I teach my posts to drop step without dribbling. Many of their high school coaches differ and tell them they are travelling, eventhough the very same officials that call the summer games referee the high school games.

With regards to the my* drop step, it's rarely called a travel, but I can't find any rules that say why it's legal. I teach the drop step as follows: After catching the ball with both feet on the ground, 1) immediately chin or forehead the ball with elbows out; 2) drop with the baseline foot to the basket; 3) bring the other foot around and put it on the floor; and 4) jump off both feet and shoot.

When I am asked why the move isn't a travel by my players, I don't know what to say. Thanks for any help.

* I've seen lots of literature and video that show jumping off the dropping foot, without putting the other foot on the floor first.
Basically, you can lift the pivot foot, but the ball must be released for the shot before the pivot foot hits the floor again. I used to teach the "step through" move to my players and we'd get a travelling call because it looked like a travel, but it wasn't because the ball was released before the pivot foot came back to the floor.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 01:39am
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Coach, if it's rarely called in summer ball, that's one thing. If your players are telling you that their hs coaches don't let them do that move, that tells you that it's NOT ignored during the season. If the hs coaches thought they could get away with it, believe me they would.

But even if it's called only twice a year, why teach the girls things that may not be use-able in other situations? If they stick to the rules, they won't ever have to worry.
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