Play for Discussion No Call or Foul

[Camron Rust]

IF anything, I have a foul on white 22 (the defender, "B").

This was not a loose ball play, it was a pass directly form one player to another.

The first contact was the B22 going through the offense to try to get to the pass. B22 also wasn't anywhere near LGP when the two came together. He was trying to guard a moving opponent without the ball and is required to be in the path and facing the opponent giving time and distance for the opponent to stop or change directions. He didn't. He was never facing the opponent at any time. He was just coming into the path at the time of contact and went partially over/through the blue player. He failed to meet the requirements of LGP in several ways. Just because you're going for the ball doesn't absolve you from meeting the requirements of guarding.

Given that this is how the play started, I'd have absolutely nothing on the elbow unless it were intentional....and it if was, I'd still get the first foul to go with it. I think the elbow was merely a reflex to getting run into, not a positive act.

And the bolded "IF" above is intended to mean that I'd likely let the shooter play on and score since he secured the ball in an advantageous position. If he had lost the ball instead, it would be a foul.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Nothing, as well.

Not a charge: 1 Blue was playing the ball without an outstretched limb touching 22 White, and 22 White had nothing resembling LGP.

Not a block: The contact simply didn't hinder 1 Blue.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

IF anything, I have a foul on white 22 (the defender, "B").

These two posts sum my thoughts completely on the play.

[JugglingReferee]

I do not have a blocking foul on 22 white (for not giving time and distance to a player without the ball) because 1 blue was not disadvantaged.

After 1 blue raised his arm and illegally contacted 22 white, his arm continued to rise up into 22 white's space. It is unclear to me if 1 blue had the ball at this point, so I am going with a common team control foul on 1 blue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I do not have a blocking foul on 22 white (for not giving time and distance to a player without the ball) because 1 blue was not disadvantaged.

After 1 blue raised his arm and illegally contacted 22 white, his arm continued to rise up into 22 white's space. It is unclear to me if 1 blue had the ball at this point, so I am going with a common team control foul on 1 blue.

I'd suggest that blue was disadvantaged by being put in a position to react by raising his arm to fend of a defender who was in an illegal position. The only reason blue's arm was even an issue is because white was coming over his shoulder in an attempt to play the ball. It is whole unjust to penalize blue for this arm given how it developed.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'd suggest that blue was disadvantaged by being put in a position to react by raising his arm to fend of a defender who was in an illegal position. The only reason blue's arm was even an issue is because white was coming over his shoulder in an attempt to play the ball. It is whole unjust to penalize blue for this arm given how it developed.

Raising a arm to fend off a defender is not legal regardless of how that defender got there. If you think there was a foul going over his shoulder then call the foul then but if you pass on it you can't allow the offense to displace a defender. And he was displaced. No way that was a flop as someone else has stated.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rwest

Raising a arm to fend off a defender is not legal regardless of how that defender got there. If you think there was a foul going over his shoulder then call the foul then but if you pass on it you can't allow the offense to displace a defender. And he was displaced. No way that was a flop as someone else has stated.

You have to get the first foul. If you pass on it, you really can't tag the other person for responding to it and call it the right call.

And BTW, the displacement had zero to do with the arm. That arm barely touched him. It was merely there. If you look carefully, the displacement had to do with the defender's hip running into the hip of the offensive player as he tried to squeeze by him. You can tell because the defender's body first moved away and was bent at the hip level. If it was the arm, the defender would have been pushed over from the top.

I don't know why so many want to make this play about something it isn't. This defender was late to the spot and there was a collision first. The arm is secondary.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You have to get the first foul. If you pass on it, you really can't tag the other person for responding to it and call it the right call.

And BTW, the displacement had zero to do with the arm. That arm barely touched him. It was merely there. If you look carefully, the displacement had to do with the defender's hip running into the hip of the offensive player as he tried to squeeze by him. You can tell because the defender's body first moved away and was bent at the hip level. If it was the arm, the defender would have been pushed over from the top.

I don't know why so many want to make this play about something it isn't. This defender was late to the spot and there was a collision first. The arm is secondary.

The defender was bent at the hip level because he was running. The contact with the arm was not insignificant. It's simple physics. The offensive player was running forward. His arm is moving at the same speed as the rest of the body. When contact occurs the energy is transferred to the defender. Again simple physics. Also, the defender's movement is consistent with contact in the upper torso. He would not have been pushed over because the contact was lateral and not in a downward trajectory.

I admit that after slowing the film down, I'm not as convinced it was an offensive foul, but in real time I have no problem with a team control foul. Just because the defender does not have legal guarding position does not give the offensive player the right to displace him.