Play for Discussion No Call or Foul

[Maineac]

I have nothing. Two guys going for a loose ball. Agree on the "ugly" part.

[Raymond]

From this angle I can't see the amount of contact, if any, from A1's arm to B1's torso. It also appears just as likely that B1 tripped from tangling feet with A1.

[jeschmit]

Originally Posted by rwest

You believe the defender would have ended up on the end-line if there was no contact? The contact occurred about 3 feet below the free throw line and he ended up on the end line. He went at least 10 to 12 feet. He would not have ended up there without the contact and he wasn't falling until contact was made.

Without saying it in my original post BNR got what I was getting at with his response...

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

From this angle I can't see the amount of contact, if any, from A1's arm to B1's torso. It also appears just as likely that B1 tripped from tangling feet with A1.

[bainsey]

Nothing, as well.

Not a charge: 1 Blue was playing the ball without an outstretched limb touching 22 White, and 22 White had nothing resembling LGP.

Not a block: The contact simply didn't hinder 1 Blue.

[Camron Rust]

IF anything, I have a foul on white 22 (the defender, "B").

This was not a loose ball play, it was a pass directly form one player to another.

The first contact was the B22 going through the offense to try to get to the pass. B22 also wasn't anywhere near LGP when the two came together. He was trying to guard a moving opponent without the ball and is required to be in the path and facing the opponent giving time and distance for the opponent to stop or change directions. He didn't. He was never facing the opponent at any time. He was just coming into the path at the time of contact and went partially over/through the blue player. He failed to meet the requirements of LGP in several ways. Just because you're going for the ball doesn't absolve you from meeting the requirements of guarding.

Given that this is how the play started, I'd have absolutely nothing on the elbow unless it were intentional....and it if was, I'd still get the first foul to go with it. I think the elbow was merely a reflex to getting run into, not a positive act.

And the bolded "IF" above is intended to mean that I'd likely let the shooter play on and score since he secured the ball in an advantageous position. If he had lost the ball instead, it would be a foul.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Nothing, as well.

Not a charge: 1 Blue was playing the ball without an outstretched limb touching 22 White, and 22 White had nothing resembling LGP.

Not a block: The contact simply didn't hinder 1 Blue.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

IF anything, I have a foul on white 22 (the defender, "B").

These two posts sum my thoughts completely on the play.

[JugglingReferee]

I do not have a blocking foul on 22 white (for not giving time and distance to a player without the ball) because 1 blue was not disadvantaged.

After 1 blue raised his arm and illegally contacted 22 white, his arm continued to rise up into 22 white's space. It is unclear to me if 1 blue had the ball at this point, so I am going with a common team control foul on 1 blue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I do not have a blocking foul on 22 white (for not giving time and distance to a player without the ball) because 1 blue was not disadvantaged.

After 1 blue raised his arm and illegally contacted 22 white, his arm continued to rise up into 22 white's space. It is unclear to me if 1 blue had the ball at this point, so I am going with a common team control foul on 1 blue.

I'd suggest that blue was disadvantaged by being put in a position to react by raising his arm to fend of a defender who was in an illegal position. The only reason blue's arm was even an issue is because white was coming over his shoulder in an attempt to play the ball. It is whole unjust to penalize blue for this arm given how it developed.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'd suggest that blue was disadvantaged by being put in a position to react by raising his arm to fend of a defender who was in an illegal position. The only reason blue's arm was even an issue is because white was coming over his shoulder in an attempt to play the ball. It is whole unjust to penalize blue for this arm given how it developed.

Raising a arm to fend off a defender is not legal regardless of how that defender got there. If you think there was a foul going over his shoulder then call the foul then but if you pass on it you can't allow the offense to displace a defender. And he was displaced. No way that was a flop as someone else has stated.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Maineac

I have nothing. Two guys going for a loose ball. Agree on the "ugly" part.

That's what I had, but I can't tell if the offense pushes from this angle with this resolution. From what I can see, two players go for the ball with equally advantageous positions. This happens regularly, and it's not a foul.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by Maineac

I have nothing. Two guys going for a loose ball. Agree on the "ugly" part.

+1 what he said.

[Welpe]

Agree with Camron. If anything I have a blocking foul on the defender but since he did not disadvantage the offensive player, I have nothing.

[BillyMac]

Player control foul on Blue #1.

[Brad]

No call on the player going to the floor -- two players going for the ball, plus a bit of a flop imo.

I do have a foul on the shot though -- defender hit/held shooter's elbow as he is shooting.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Brad

No call on the player going to the floor -- two players going for the ball, plus a bit of a flop imo.

I do have a foul on the shot though -- defender hit/held shooter's elbow as he is shooting.

I honestly didn't even think about the first contact (which most everyone is discussing) and was more focused on the contact on the shot/defender in the restricted area.