Defenders Hand blocking opponent's vision

[hoopguy]

AKA - Shane Battier defense; Watching the Heat in the playoffs, I can't help but notice Shane Battier holding his hands in front of his opponents eyes as often as possible. By NFHS 10-3-6c this would be an unsporting technical foul. Has anyone every called this? I can't remember seeing this called but I also can't really remember players doing this. I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of it now as players emulate this tactic they have been watching during the playoffs and some coaches will probably teach it.

[APG]

Battier's been doing that for years...they've highlighted him doing that to Kobe for years. Typically, you'll see him put the hand to the face during a shot...which wouldn't be a technical foul. And for clarification's sake, it's considered face guarding in the NBA only if a player places a hand, from behind, in a player's face who doesn't have possession of the ball.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

Has anyone every called this?

Nope!

[APG]

Here's a clarification on why that wouldn't considered a T IMO. I believe this was a POE from 2004-05 in regards to face guarding:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The "faceguarding" rule was changed in 2004-05 to include the player with the ball. Before that, it only applied to a player without the ball. So, up until then it was legal to put a hand in the face of a shooter. But when they changed the rule, the FED also told us how to apply the rule on an accompanying POE. And here's part of that direction:

POE 4A: "The committee does not intend good defense to be penalized. Challenging a shooter with a "hand in the face" or fronting a post player with a hand in the air to prevent a post pass are examples of acceptable actions. The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision. Often, that occurs off the ball or as players are moving up the court.".

It is unfortunate that wasn't added to the case play.

Here's the rest of the thread in which face guarding was discussed.

Face guarding

[hoopguy]

APG, I am reading the rule and the case book and the thread and all seem to point to what Shane Battier is doing as an unsporting technical foul, by NFHS rule. He is placing his hand in front of his opponent’s eyes for the sole purpose of blocking/hindering his vision. In the post you link to, most seem to agree that this is not called mainly because a warning would be issued and the player changes his behavior. Would anyone make this call without a warning or with a warning in a High School Varsity game?

[Adam]

7th grade girls YMCA, probably around 8 years ago, I warned a girl for this.

It's the only time I've ever seen it happen. I don't watch enough NBA to know what Battier is doing, but I'll add that if it was illegal and the NBA wanted it called, it would get called.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

APG, I am reading the rule and the case book and the thread and all seem to point to what Shane Battier is doing as an unsporting technical foul, by NFHS rule. He is placing his hand in front of his opponent’s eyes for the sole purpose of blocking/hindering his vision. In the post you link to, most seem to agree that this is not called mainly because a warning would be issued and the player changes his behavior. Would anyone make this call without a warning or with a warning in a High School Varsity game?

But look at the POE that was released when the rule was also modified:

POE 4A: "The committee does not intend good defense to be penalized. Challenging a shooter with a "hand in the face" or fronting a post player with a hand in the air to prevent a post pass are examples of acceptable actions. The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision. Often, that occurs off the ball or as players are moving up the court.".

All Battier is doing is getting a "hand in the face." He just does it more exceptionally than most.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

7th grade girls YMCA, probably around 8 years ago, I warned a girl for this.

It's the only time I've ever seen it happen. I don't watch enough NBA to know what Battier is doing, but I'll add that if it was illegal and the NBA wanted it called, it would get called.

The NBA has a different definition of face guarding (which they also refer to as eye guarding). It's a lot more specific and what Battier is doing doesn't even come close to fitting the definition.

[Camron Rust]

There is a difference between a hand in the face of a shooter to distract them and a hand obstructing their vision by putting a hand right over the shooters eyes. One is getting the hand in the line of sight of the shooter...which is legal, the other is right on the players nose and "near his/her eyes" to cover their eyes....not legal.

[hoopguy]

APG, you and I may be watching the same game but are certainly seeing it differently. My view of what Shane Battier is doing is putting his hand right in front of his opponents eyes. Not a basketball play. No reason to do this except to block the opponent's vision. I guess you think this is somehow a basketball play. I do not. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I also think Battier does more flopping than anyone not playing soccer and am not fan of this tactic either. Do we need to agree to disagree on this one, too?

Also IMHO there are basketball terms which I believe are being misapplied here. Wherever I have played baskeball, 'face guarding' was a defensive tactic where the defender attempted to prevent the offensive player from getting the pass by guarding him face to face and moving everywhere he went. It never had anything to do with putting your hand over the opponents eyes. Also, the term 'hand in the face' was not intendend to be about illegally blocking your opponents vision. It means to be up close and usually to jump with the shooter with your hand up but it is easer to say 'get up in his face' or 'put a hand in his face'. Sort of like when someone is closely guarding you and jumps up and tries to block your shot then offensively when you still make the shot, you have given the defender a facial and the proper taunt is 'in your face'. I like to use that expression as often as I can

[APG]

You ask 10 basketball fans if what Battier is doing is a basketball play, and I'm guessing 8-9 of them wouldn't think anything about it. If I'm going to be making a T call for something like that, it damn well better be clear to everyone involved it's not a basketball play. Like the POE pointed out, you usually see this in transition away from the ball away from the ball.

As for your other point on Battier, there are times where Battier embellishes contact during some block/charge scenarios, but in general, he's excellent at rotating over and taking the charge. He's not really known in the NBA for being an embellisher. James Hardin exaggerates contact on plays way more consistently than Battier does. I can think of five to ten players that are way worse than Battier.

[ursamajor]

when i was young i was always coached to "get a hand in his face" when defending a shooter. If, after he has released the ball, i keep my hand in his face, am i committing a foul? i have found that a shooter's pct goes way down when i do this (pick up and playground ball) i do not put my hand in his face while he is shooting, only after the release, thanks

[bob jenkins]

Probably not a foul. Certainly not a personal foul. Might be a T for "purposely obstructing an opponent's vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his/her eyes."

[ballgame99]

Had this called against my daughter's club team. We were denying the ball to their best player in the last couple minutes, so we had a girl "faceguarding" her, and by that it just means deny her the ball all the time, don't worry about helping, etc. No hands in her vision or anything. Ref called T on us in a tight game without even warning her or us. Unless this is blatant, like the defender has a hand inches away from someone's face, I'm not sure how you can call it. And if that happens on an airborne shooter, I'm not sure I have anything.

[SC Official]

Is it necessary to revive 3.5-year-old threads?