The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 11:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Face guarding

BV I'm center helping bring the ball up the court and I think I see a player stick his hand right in another players face intentionally with no contact but 2" in front of the guy's nose (I was just turning my head and when I quickly looked back the offending hand was down about a foot so I told myself to watch that particular player to see if it happens again) I call a shooting foul about 10 seconds later and after I report the coach quietly says to me, "face guarding is illegal, you need to T that #22." I told the coach I would watch for it. I went over to one of my senior partners and told him to watch for it too. He told me to go tell the other coach that he had a player that was face guarding and we would be calling it if we saw it. I go tell the other coach(23 years old) and he says, "what do you mean face guarding is illegal? it wasn't that way when I played. How long has that rule been in effect? Senior reff hears the conversation and comes over and says its been around a long time. Coach tells player to knock it off. How many times a year do other reffs call this? I've only seen it twice and never called it myself. I feel bad I missed it in this last game.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 11:12am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,642
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
I don't have the history but,

Rule Book - Section 3, Player Technical, ART. 6 . . . Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as:

d. Purposely obstructing an opponent’s vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his/her eyes.

NOTE: Purposely diverting an opponent’s attention by waving is different than holding or waving the hands near the opponent’s eyes for the express purpose of obstructing the vision so that he/she cannot see.



I can't ever recall calling it or seeing it.
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 11:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 381
I called it once a looong time ago in a jr. high game after giving a warning. Pretty sure I have never seen it called in a HS game. IMO a warning should preceed this call, if they keep doing it afterward too bad.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 11:45am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Is it also a technical foul to do it to a shooter?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 12:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Is it also a technical foul to do it to a shooter?
Yes, of course, opponent is all the rule implies. ( I know I'm going to get blasted on this one, seems like a set up. What's your point JR?)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 12:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 265
Pg 83

Pg 83 of the case book spells this one out for you. The answer is yes, putting your hands in front of the face of a player with or without the ball is illegal and can be assessed a T. Common Sense needs to prevail though if a player is trying to block a shot or just defend and his or her hand passes by the eyes of the defender. We can't over officiate this one.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 12:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 297
Wasn't there a change to the rule recently (few years) to include the person with the ball?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 12:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 265
I believe

I believe the change was six years ago. Give or take 1. But as I stated above case book pag 83 takes care of it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 12:59pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF View Post
But as I stated above case book pag 83 takes care of it.
Oh?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 01:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
Wasn't there a change to the rule recently (few years) to include the person with the ball?
I don't recall that being a change. Just the other part to the ruling that's always been there.
__________________
"The soldier is the army."

-General George S. Patton, Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 01:06pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
I think the old rule used to specify a player without the ball.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 01:14pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudwhistle View Post
Yes, of course, opponent is all the rule implies. ( I know I'm going to get blasted on this one, seems like a set up. What's your point JR?)
Nope, it's not a set-up. I was just wondering how many officials knew the right interpretation. I know that the vets do, so I'll quit playing and give you the answer.

The "faceguarding" rule was changed in 2004-05 to include the player with the ball. Before that, it only applied to a player without the ball. So, up until then it was legal to put a hand in the face of a shooter. But when they changed the rule, the FED also told us how to apply the rule on an accompanying POE. And here's part of that direction:

POE 4A: "The committee does not intend good defense to be penalized. Challenging a shooter with a "hand in the face" or fronting a post player with a hand in the air to prevent a post pass are examples of acceptable actions. The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision. Often, that occurs off the ball or as players are moving up the court.".

It is unfortunate that wasn't added to the case play.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 05:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Not where I was previously
Posts: 1,060
I had this situation happen the year prior to the rule change The player WITH the ball kept waving in the face of her defender. The coach kept asking me to give her a "T". I told her that rule only applied to the defensive player. She harped on me the whole game (in a nice way) I eventually told her that it would be a BETTER idea to have her player steal the ball while the offensive player was distracted waving her arms. Her player did this 3 times and the player stopped. I am glad they changed the rule!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 06:33pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
I had this situation happen the year prior to the rule change The player WITH the ball kept waving in the face of her defender. The coach kept asking me to give her a "T". I told her that rule only applied to the defensive player.
Um, no, methinks you misremembered the rule.

The rule applied to obstructing the vision of an opponent without the ball. It didn't matter whether that opponent was on offense or defense. Iow, the coach had the concept right.

And to make sure that I didn't misremember it also, I went back and checked it in old rule book.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 08:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Not where I was previously
Posts: 1,060
Actually, I sent a message to our state body regarding the rule, as did the coach. We were both told my interpretation was correct. The following year during the annual rules clinic the change in the wording and penatly was emphasized and this particular play was mentioned as NOW being a "T" where as the year before it would not have been. (It actually felt nice being the anonymous celebrity ref in the meeting!) There was nothing addressing an OFFENSIVE player putting a hand in the face of a DEFENSIVE player.
Now, they may have been wrong, which I can deal with, but at the time according to "the powers that be" it was the correct non call

Last edited by Judtech; Fri Feb 05, 2010 at 08:42pm. Reason: Left out part
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56940-face-guarding.html
Posted By For Type Date
National Semi Final question ... | The Boneyard This thread Refback Mon May 20, 2013 04:29am

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Face Guarding rainmaker Basketball 5 Mon Jun 28, 2004 02:44am
face guarding rslevy64 Basketball 17 Thu Apr 01, 2004 08:34pm
Face Guarding or not?? shocker Football 8 Wed Oct 01, 2003 09:22pm
Face Guarding-Def PI Rick Vietti Football 3 Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:50am
I need help on face guarding byrdman Football 2 Wed Sep 10, 2003 08:01am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1