Target

[tref]

IDK what it is lately, but I got another ball fired at me last night.
Different league, different city... better pay!

So Team A is losing by a half dozen & we reach that point in the game where they are fouling to stop the clock & the other team is knocking down FTs, its over.

A1 fouls B1 at midcourt, the ball rolls OOB on the far sideline as the T reports. Im L going to administer the bonus. A5 goes to retrieve the ball & FIRES a laser from the 28' line while still OOB. The ball skims off of his teammates head continues toward me but bounces just short of me. I catch it off the hop, allow A5 to take a spot on the lane line & walk directly up to him & say, "just so we're on the same page, you werent throwing the ball AT ME, were you?!?!"
He says "no" but wouldnt look me in the eye.
I say, "good... you need to be careful because you hit your own teammate."
He says, "Well call a better game."
WHACK goodnight!

Some of you may remember the player in the womens league actually hitting me in the head with the ball a few weeks ago. Now this, its becoming too common & it seems like its always the less skilled player on the team. You know, the player that initiates contact on a verticle defender (that happens to be a foot and a half taller) then throws up some garbage & says "call something man!"
Wondering should I start hitting the weights, maybe I look suspect out there or perhaps me being 5'10" the player being 5'7" & my partner being 6'6" was what made me the mark
At least I didnt turn my back on the players this time & saw it coming

[JetMetFan]

Maybe it's that bulls eye on the back of your striped shirt...

I probably wouldn't have engaged the player directly in the latest scenario. An "everyone, let's keep playing ball" to the group when you were administering the FT might've been enough to calm things down. Saying something directly to him just gives him the chance to say something dumb, which he did.

[tref]

Perhaps... or it could be a HTBT type of unsporting act.

Allow me to clarify, dead ball, players walking to the FT area & he fires a baseball pass from the 28" to me directly under the basket. That was too egregious to be subtle about it, for me anyway. I couldn't let it ride & I feel like I gave him an out by wording it the way I did. He chose not to be a man about it... or should I say, not to be smart about it.

As a matter of fact, it was so over the top that his teammates even looked at him like uh-oh. Before I ran him my partner told the table it wouldnt end good as he had a great look at the unsporting act as well.

I think it was a no-brainer as nobody said a word about the ejection... not even the player. He didnt say another word just got his stuff & exit stage left. It felt like the music stopped playing & all eyes were on him like in those westerns when the villian walks in the bar.
The only thing that was questioned on that play was why they shot 3 FTs & got the ball back

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Maybe it's that bulls eye on the back of your striped shirt...

I probably wouldn't have engaged the player directly in the latest scenario. An "everyone, let's keep playing ball" to the group when you were administering the FT might've been enough to calm things down. Saying something directly to him just gives him the chance to say something dumb, which he did.

I'm most definitely addressing the player directly in this scenario. And if he decides to respond, especially with something stupid, then that's on him.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Perhaps... or it could be a HTBT type of unsporting act.

Allow me to clarify, dead ball, players walking to the FT area & he fires a baseball pass from the 28" to me directly under the basket. That was too egregious to be subtle about it, for me anyway. I couldn't let it ride & I feel like I gave him an out by wording it the way I did. He chose not to be a man about it... or should I say, not to be smart about it.

As a matter of fact, it was so over the top that his teammates even looked at him like uh-oh. Before I ran him my partner told the table it wouldnt end good as he had a great look at the unsporting act as well.

I think it was a no-brainer as nobody said a word about the ejection... not even the player. He didnt say another word just got his stuff & exit stage left. It felt like the music stopped playing & all eyes were on him like in those westerns when the villian walks in the bar.
The only thing that was questioned on that play was why they shot 3 FTs & got the ball back

Why not just send him without the discussion? Game was over, and this guy is obviously not needed anymore. He acted stupid, no need for him to explain, just toss him.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

Why not just send him without the discussion? Game was over, and this guy is obviously not needed anymore. He acted stupid, no need for him to explain, just toss him.

Well, it wasnt quite clear if he was frustrated with himself/team or me. Like when a player drops the f bomb after missing a layup. Was that to me for the no call or to himself for missing?
Nothing like tossing a player & them saying "hey I'm sorry but I wasnt throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration."
I just like to clarify before running a player on questionable acts.
His answer turned a questionable into a no-brainer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by badnewsref

i'm most definitely addressing the player directly in this scenario. And if he decides to respond, especially with something stupid, then that's on him.

+1

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Well, it wasnt quite clear if he was frustrated with himself/team or me. Like when a player drops the f bomb after missing a layup. Was that to me for the no call or to himself for missing?
Nothing like tossing a player & them saying "hey I'm sorry but I wasnt throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration."
I just like to clarify before running a player on questionable acts.
His answer turned a questionable into a no-brainer.

I don't really care what his intention was, you can't fire the ball in this situation. The game is over, the stupid act was firing the ball, then followed by another stupid act of answering the way he did.

If he says, "hey, I'm sorry but I wasn't throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration." "Perhaps you won't be so frustrated next week."

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

I don't really care what his intention was, you can't fire the ball in this situation. The game is over, the stupid act was firing the ball, then followed by another stupid act of answering the way he did.

If he says, "hey, I'm sorry but I wasn't throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration." "Perhaps you won't be so frustrated next week."

Hahahaha nice! We all have our own interpretation of what crossing the line means to us.

My thought process for the one way discussion was:

1. I havent had any conflict with him in the past 39 minutes.
2. I had never officiated him before (give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves undeserving)
3. Uncertantiy on what he was trying to accomplish.
a. If the ball didnt slow down by skimming his teammates head,
his unsporting act would've been much more clear.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Hahahaha nice! We all have our own interpretation of what crossing the line means to us.

My thought process for the one way discussion was:

1. I havent had any conflict with him in the past 39 minutes.
2. I had never officiated him before (give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves undeserving)
3. Uncertantiy on what he was trying to accomplish.
a. If the ball didnt slow down by skimming his teammates head,
his unsporting act would've been much more clear.

You're correct, we all have our own threshold for what constitutes a T or an ejection.

But I know this much, I don't care if you are frustrated at yourself, your teammates, the other team, the referee's, you cannot act like a jerk. Firing a ball is acting like a jerk and it gets you sent home.

But I'm glad you handled business when your threshold was crossed. Mine would have been just a little sooner.

[Smitty]

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection. You started a conversation that probably should have ended when the kid said "no" to your first question, but you kept it going, I'm sure not in the friendliest of tones. If I egg a kid into a conversation and he ends up saying something dumb, I'm feeling like I may need to eat some of the responsibility. Maybe the coach should have been the one you had a conversation with and let him handle it - or not. Just looking at it from a different angle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection. You started a conversation that probably should have ended when the kid said "no" to your first question, but you kept it going, I'm sure not in the friendliest of tones. If I egg a kid into a conversation and he ends up saying something dumb, I'm feeling like I may need to eat some of the responsibility. Maybe the coach should have been the one you had a conversation with and let him handle it - or not. Just looking at it from a different angle.

I think, from tref's previous situation, this was an adult rec game.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think, from tref's previous situation, this was an adult rec game.

I guess that could change things about talking to a coach for sure, but one of the reasons I don't work adult leagues is because of how those idiots behave. However, even if these were adults, I still don't see tossing a guy for that particular remark when I started the conversation that led him to say it. It wasn't threatening and it wasn't loud. Just a T from me. If the ball bounced before it got to me, it wasn't thrown that hard and directly at me. Tref made his point when he asked the first question and he got an answer. The rest of the conversation wasn't needed and I just don't think the response was ejection-worthy. But I wasn't there, so it's easy for me to say.

I also wonder what's going on if you get the ball thrown at you so many times in different games. I have to wonder why this is happening to this guy. Something seems fishy about that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I guess that could change things about talking to a coach for sure, but one of the reasons I don't work adult leagues is because of how those idiots behave. However, even if these were adults, I still don't see tossing a guy for that particular remark when I started the conversation that led him to say it. It wasn't threatening and it wasn't loud. Just a T from me. If the ball bounced before it got to me, it wasn't thrown that hard and directly at me. Tref made his point when he asked the first question and he got an answer. The rest of the conversation wasn't needed and I just don't think the response was ejection-worthy. But I wasn't there, so it's easy for me to say.

I also wonder what's going on if you get the ball thrown at you so many times in different games. I have to wonder why this is happening to this guy. Something seems fishy about that.

I've worked exactly 5 adult games this year, none of them in the Denver area, so I don't know how common this is up there.

I will say, however, that from his description, the only reason the ball bounced before it got to him was because A5 had poor aim (or A1 walked into the path) and A1's head slowed it down. I'm with Toren, I'd be more inclined to go straight to the toss than I would to end up with a standard T. I liked tref's approach here, but I wouldn't hold any variation against someone who responded differently.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by tref

Perhaps... or it could be a HTBT type of unsporting act.

Allow me to clarify, dead ball, players walking to the FT area & he fires a baseball pass from the 28" to me directly under the basket. That was too egregious to be subtle about it, for me anyway. I couldn't let it ride & I feel like I gave him an out by wording it the way I did. He chose not to be a man about it... or should I say, not to be smart about it.

As a matter of fact, it was so over the top that his teammates even looked at him like uh-oh. Before I ran him my partner told the table it wouldnt end good as he had a great look at the unsporting act as well.

I think it was a no-brainer as nobody said a word about the ejection... not even the player. He didnt say another word just got his stuff & exit stage left. It felt like the music stopped playing & all eyes were on him like in those westerns when the villian walks in the bar.
The only thing that was questioned on that play was why they shot 3 FTs & got the ball back

Okay. Since you clarified the situation that's different. If it was an adult league game that's really different...I'd be more inclined to take Toren's strategy and just toss him. Not worth the aggravation, especially at the end of the game.