Target

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Well, it wasnt quite clear if he was frustrated with himself/team or me. Like when a player drops the f bomb after missing a layup. Was that to me for the no call or to himself for missing?
Nothing like tossing a player & them saying "hey I'm sorry but I wasnt throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration."
I just like to clarify before running a player on questionable acts.
His answer turned a questionable into a no-brainer.

I don't really care what his intention was, you can't fire the ball in this situation. The game is over, the stupid act was firing the ball, then followed by another stupid act of answering the way he did.

If he says, "hey, I'm sorry but I wasn't throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration." "Perhaps you won't be so frustrated next week."

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

I don't really care what his intention was, you can't fire the ball in this situation. The game is over, the stupid act was firing the ball, then followed by another stupid act of answering the way he did.

If he says, "hey, I'm sorry but I wasn't throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration." "Perhaps you won't be so frustrated next week."

Hahahaha nice! We all have our own interpretation of what crossing the line means to us.

My thought process for the one way discussion was:

1. I havent had any conflict with him in the past 39 minutes.
2. I had never officiated him before (give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves undeserving)
3. Uncertantiy on what he was trying to accomplish.
a. If the ball didnt slow down by skimming his teammates head,
his unsporting act would've been much more clear.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Hahahaha nice! We all have our own interpretation of what crossing the line means to us.

My thought process for the one way discussion was:

1. I havent had any conflict with him in the past 39 minutes.
2. I had never officiated him before (give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves undeserving)
3. Uncertantiy on what he was trying to accomplish.
a. If the ball didnt slow down by skimming his teammates head,
his unsporting act would've been much more clear.

You're correct, we all have our own threshold for what constitutes a T or an ejection.

But I know this much, I don't care if you are frustrated at yourself, your teammates, the other team, the referee's, you cannot act like a jerk. Firing a ball is acting like a jerk and it gets you sent home.

But I'm glad you handled business when your threshold was crossed. Mine would have been just a little sooner.

[Smitty]

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection. You started a conversation that probably should have ended when the kid said "no" to your first question, but you kept it going, I'm sure not in the friendliest of tones. If I egg a kid into a conversation and he ends up saying something dumb, I'm feeling like I may need to eat some of the responsibility. Maybe the coach should have been the one you had a conversation with and let him handle it - or not. Just looking at it from a different angle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection. You started a conversation that probably should have ended when the kid said "no" to your first question, but you kept it going, I'm sure not in the friendliest of tones. If I egg a kid into a conversation and he ends up saying something dumb, I'm feeling like I may need to eat some of the responsibility. Maybe the coach should have been the one you had a conversation with and let him handle it - or not. Just looking at it from a different angle.

I think, from tref's previous situation, this was an adult rec game.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think, from tref's previous situation, this was an adult rec game.

I guess that could change things about talking to a coach for sure, but one of the reasons I don't work adult leagues is because of how those idiots behave. However, even if these were adults, I still don't see tossing a guy for that particular remark when I started the conversation that led him to say it. It wasn't threatening and it wasn't loud. Just a T from me. If the ball bounced before it got to me, it wasn't thrown that hard and directly at me. Tref made his point when he asked the first question and he got an answer. The rest of the conversation wasn't needed and I just don't think the response was ejection-worthy. But I wasn't there, so it's easy for me to say.

I also wonder what's going on if you get the ball thrown at you so many times in different games. I have to wonder why this is happening to this guy. Something seems fishy about that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I guess that could change things about talking to a coach for sure, but one of the reasons I don't work adult leagues is because of how those idiots behave. However, even if these were adults, I still don't see tossing a guy for that particular remark when I started the conversation that led him to say it. It wasn't threatening and it wasn't loud. Just a T from me. If the ball bounced before it got to me, it wasn't thrown that hard and directly at me. Tref made his point when he asked the first question and he got an answer. The rest of the conversation wasn't needed and I just don't think the response was ejection-worthy. But I wasn't there, so it's easy for me to say.

I also wonder what's going on if you get the ball thrown at you so many times in different games. I have to wonder why this is happening to this guy. Something seems fishy about that.

I've worked exactly 5 adult games this year, none of them in the Denver area, so I don't know how common this is up there.

I will say, however, that from his description, the only reason the ball bounced before it got to him was because A5 had poor aim (or A1 walked into the path) and A1's head slowed it down. I'm with Toren, I'd be more inclined to go straight to the toss than I would to end up with a standard T. I liked tref's approach here, but I wouldn't hold any variation against someone who responded differently.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection. You started a conversation that probably should have ended when the kid said "no" to your first question, but you kept it going, I'm sure not in the friendliest of tones. If I egg a kid into a conversation and he ends up saying something dumb, I'm feeling like I may need to eat some of the responsibility. Maybe the coach should have been the one you had a conversation with and let him handle it - or not. Just looking at it from a different angle.

Everybody has their own take, I needed validation to hand out the proper discipline. Could I have stopped at no? Yes. But I didnt because I wanted it to be clear that we weren't having anymore of THAT from him, his teammates or opponents. When he said call a better game, he basically said yeah I did throw it at you. And I felt I had the green light.

Originally Posted by Smitty

I also wonder what's going on if you get the ball thrown at you so many times in different games. I have to wonder why this is happening to this guy. Something seems fishy about that.

IKR!! But seeing how my phone rings weekly to be given assignments as opposed to requesting them & the fact that I'm still working 4-6 nights a week, every week of the year... the people that matter most to my career obviously appreciate what I bring to the table

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection.

I agree ... you're not picturing things right. ") The conversation might not be ejectable on it's own - it's the actions beforehand that warranted the ejection. And while I disagree with TR trying to determine the intent of the players (I think it was ejectable regardless of intent) - the fact that he DID determine the intent, and that intent confirms that the ball-throwing was ejectable completely justifies the tossing.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I agree ... you're not picturing things right. ") The conversation might not be ejectable on it's own - it's the actions beforehand that warranted the ejection. And while I disagree with TR trying to determine the intent of the players (I think it was ejectable regardless of intent) - the fact that he DID determine the intent, and that intent confirms that the ball-throwing was ejectable completely justifies the tossing.

And you know this because you were there?

I read the OP over again and the ball bounced after "skimming" by one of his teammate's head. I don't see how this can be having the ball thrown at you "like a laser" when it bounces before it gets to you. Based on tref's history with other situations that were actually worse, I just wonder more whether he is carrying his cockiness that he displays here into his games a bit too much. Maybe not - I don't know, but it sure seems odd that so many players are willing to vent their frustration so blatantly directly at him.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I don't know, but it sure seems odd that so many players are willing to vent their frustration so blatantly directly at him.

...or as somebody may have alluded to...it may be the types of players in the types of games he is working.