Jeff Van Gundy on "Flopping"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

What's the dif, then?

Embellishing is when there is a call that could be made without the embellishment. Flopping is when there is no call to make but the player feels the need to act like something took place that clearly did not.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

What's the dif, then?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Embellishing is when there is a call that could be made without the embellishment. Flopping is when there is no call to make but the player feels the need to act like something took place that clearly did not.

Peace

Yep. The T is for "faking being fouled," not for failing to remain standing after contact. If the player really thinks he got fouled, he's not faking, even if he's embellishing. To me, "faking" requires understanding that he wasn't fouled. That usually involves the sudden backwards thrust and a grunt, not a slow fade backwards. Sometimes, it's hard to tell; but if it's hard to tell, I'm not worrying about it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's hard to tell, I'm not worrying about it.

Words of wisdom.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep. The T is for "faking being fouled," not for failing to remain standing after contact. If the player really thinks he got fouled, he's not faking, even if he's embellishing. To me, "faking" requires understanding that he wasn't fouled. That usually involves the sudden backwards thrust and a grunt, not a slow fade backwards. Sometimes, it's hard to tell; but if it's hard to tell, I'm not worrying about it.

I disagree. Embellishing (a player throwing themselves back after contact to a degree that doesn't match the level of contact) IS faking being fouled. It is an attempt to convince the official there was more contact than there was, that there was a foul when there may not have been enough contact for one. That is faking a foul. The only way it is not is when there really was a foul.

I agree that it is not failing to remain standing....but you and I both know the difference between getting knocked down and falling down as if you were knocked down.

And it is not fading backwards.

Letting your self be displaced is certainly not the same as displacing yourself.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. Embellishing (a player throwing themselves back after contact to a degree that doesn't match the level of contact) IS faking being fouled. It is an attempt to convince the official there was more contact than there was, that there was a foul when there may not have been enough contact for one. That is faking a foul.

That's how I see it. Embellishing is faking. It's all an act of deception.

Just because you were contacted, it does not earn you the right to pretend there was more.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. Embellishing (a player throwing themselves back after contact to a degree that doesn't match the level of contact) IS faking being fouled. It is an attempt to convince the official there was more contact than there was, that there was a foul when there may not have been enough contact for one. That is faking a foul. The only way it is not is when there really was a foul.

I agree that it is not failing to remain standing....but you and I both know the difference between getting knocked down and falling down as if you were knocked down.

And it is not fading backwards.

Letting your self be displaced is certainly not the same as displacing yourself.

I agree. I should perhaps have differentiated between embellishing the contact and allowing yourself to be displaced by contact. Most of what I see is the latter, if it's not just bailing early in anticipation of the contact.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... Flopping is when there is no call to make but the player feels the need to act like something took place that clearly did not.

Peace

You have just defined flopping exactly like I do...and I think most others in this forum would agree.