Jeff Van Gundy on "Flopping"

[jump stop]

The problem with the way I see it for flops and charges alike is: if you don't fall to the ground or demonstrate that you were shoved or hit hard by acting out, you probably won't get the call.
If you take on an opposing player like a linebacker takes on an oncoming blocker by holding your ground you probably will get the foul called on yourself. Or if you take the charge by backing up a step or two instead of falling to the ground , there is a better chance of a no call.
So I don't see how you can change the flops or acting of players, just like in this instance. There is no way the player from NY could knock over the Miami player so easily with one arm. But if he would have stood his ground, there would not have been a call.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by jump stop

The problem with the way I see it for flops and charges alike is: if you don't fall to the ground or demonstrate that you were shoved or hit hard by acting out, you probably won't get the call.
If you take on an opposing player like a linebacker takes on an oncoming blocker by holding your ground you probably will get the foul called on yourself. Or if you take the charge by backing up a step or two instead of falling to the ground , there is a better chance of a no call.
So I don't see how you can change the flops or acting of players, just like in this instance. There is no way the player from NY could knock over the Miami player so easily with one arm. But if he would have stood his ground, there would not have been a call.

+ infinity.

When the prevailing theory is, "call the obvious", you can't blame the defenders for embellishing the contact.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

+ infinity.

When the prevailing theory is, "call the obvious", you can't blame the defenders for embellishing the contact.

1. I try not to force the defender to fall to the floor to get the call. Displacement is enough.

2. Embellishing isn't flopping, IMO.

3. Players who embellish run the risk of being out of position if we don't call the foul. To me, that's punishment enough; especially at the higher levels where the shooter will take advantage more readily.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Embellishing isn't flopping, IMO.

What's the dif, then?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

What's the dif, then?

Embellishing is when there is a call that could be made without the embellishment. Flopping is when there is no call to make but the player feels the need to act like something took place that clearly did not.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

What's the dif, then?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Embellishing is when there is a call that could be made without the embellishment. Flopping is when there is no call to make but the player feels the need to act like something took place that clearly did not.

Peace

Yep. The T is for "faking being fouled," not for failing to remain standing after contact. If the player really thinks he got fouled, he's not faking, even if he's embellishing. To me, "faking" requires understanding that he wasn't fouled. That usually involves the sudden backwards thrust and a grunt, not a slow fade backwards. Sometimes, it's hard to tell; but if it's hard to tell, I'm not worrying about it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's hard to tell, I'm not worrying about it.

Words of wisdom.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep. The T is for "faking being fouled," not for failing to remain standing after contact. If the player really thinks he got fouled, he's not faking, even if he's embellishing. To me, "faking" requires understanding that he wasn't fouled. That usually involves the sudden backwards thrust and a grunt, not a slow fade backwards. Sometimes, it's hard to tell; but if it's hard to tell, I'm not worrying about it.

I disagree. Embellishing (a player throwing themselves back after contact to a degree that doesn't match the level of contact) IS faking being fouled. It is an attempt to convince the official there was more contact than there was, that there was a foul when there may not have been enough contact for one. That is faking a foul. The only way it is not is when there really was a foul.

I agree that it is not failing to remain standing....but you and I both know the difference between getting knocked down and falling down as if you were knocked down.

And it is not fading backwards.

Letting your self be displaced is certainly not the same as displacing yourself.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... Flopping is when there is no call to make but the player feels the need to act like something took place that clearly did not.

Peace

You have just defined flopping exactly like I do...and I think most others in this forum would agree.