Celtics play

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

PC, but I'm not 100% sure on the travel at the end of Lebron's drive. Remember that the NBA changed their traveling rule to allow 2 steps after establishing a pivot foot. That means (I think) that you can establish a pivot foot, step with the other foot (thus lifting the pivot) and then step again (placing the pivot back on the floor) and this is legal.

And I think that's what Lebron did at the end of that drive. It's hard to see exactly when he gathers the ball, but I think he only steps twice after gathering.

Since the right foot was last to touch, and therefore would be the step to possibly rule as a travel, the question becomes is the left on the ground when he gathered the ball.

I think it is. In fact, I think he has two hands on the ball when the left is still touching the floor.

[JugglingReferee]

The only was that there is no travel at the beginning of LeBron's possession, is if the NBE dribble step allotment is identical to the shot allotment.

[JRutledge]

Wasn't he fouled? If he is fouled before he travels and it looks like that based on that would be the only contact that would negate any travel. They did not show the angle from the official's point of view so I am wondering how much of a foul it was, but it appears a foul was called in real time on the right arm while LeBron is in the act of shooting. It may have actually been a travel first, but it appears the call was about a foul as a result. What would have been a better question is should the basket could on a foul where the player "travels" after being fouled?

Peace

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Wasn't he fouled? If he is fouled before he travels and it looks like that based on that would be the only contact that would negate any travel. They did not show the angle from the official's point of view so I am wondering how much of a foul it was, but it appears a foul was called in real time on the right arm while LeBron is in the act of shooting. It may have actually been a travel first, but it appears the call was about a foul as a result. What would have been a better question is should the basket could on a foul where the player "travels" after being fouled?

Peace

Yes, travel did not occur until after the hit on the arm. I tend to believe that if you did/do not call the travel why negate the foul called. Thus, count the basket.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Yes, travel did not occur until after the hit on the arm. I tend to believe that if you did/do not call the travel why negate the foul called. Thus, count the basket.

If a player in the act of shooting gets fouled and then travels before releasing the shot then you should wipe the basket and award 2 free-throws.

[letemplay]

I'll agree with most on the travel, but disagree with most on the PC.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If a player in the act of shooting gets fouled and then travels before releasing the shot then you should wipe the basket and award 2 free-throws.

BNR,

I understand that. I knew you would come along to make sure I knew it..

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Yes, travel did not occur until after the hit on the arm. I tend to believe that if you did/do not call the travel why negate the foul called. Thus, count the basket.

I was not saying negate the foul, just asking if we should count the basket or not on this kind of play if the foul takes place? Then after the foul technically travels, do we count the basket? Or do we give 2 shots instead if the ball goes in anyway?

But it appears you got the gist of what I was saying.

Peace

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I was not saying negate the foul, just asking if we should count the basket or not on this kind of play if the foul takes place? Then after the foul technically travels, do we count the basket? Or do we give 2 shots instead if the ball goes in anyway?

But it appears you got the gist of what I was saying.

Peace

JRut,

I did get the gist. The point you brought up was valid too. Do we count or not count the basket if the travel occurs while in the act of shooting? Award two shots for the foul. These discussions are helpful..

[APG]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Eeek.

I've got a PC and two travels, even by NBE standards.

Well you're wrong on the first play. This is a blocking foul and this is an easy call under NBA rules (and is pretty damn close under NFHS/NCAA rules). A defender must allow a player who receives a pass outside the lower defensive box the opportunity to land and stop and/or change direction. The defender in the above play did not do that thus, he did not have a legal position.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

PC, but I'm not 100% sure on the travel at the end of Lebron's drive. Remember that the NBA changed their traveling rule to allow 2 steps after establishing a pivot foot. That means (I think) that you can establish a pivot foot, step with the other foot (thus lifting the pivot) and then step again (placing the pivot back on the floor) and this is legal.

And I think that's what Lebron did at the end of that drive. It's hard to see exactly when he gathers the ball, but I think he only steps twice after gathering.

A player is allowed two steps after they've gathered the ball....not after they've established a pivot foot. The first step occurs after the player has gathered the ball and takes a step. So for example, a player gathers the ball with a left foot on the floor...step one occurs when he steps with the right foot...step two occurs when he steps with the left foot. In that case, the right foot is the pivot foot. And the first example, that would be a travel under NCAA/NFHS rules. Second example: Player gathers the ball with the left foot on the floor. Player steps with the right foot (step 1), then jumps off the right foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (considered step 2). This is a travel under NFHS/NCAA rules but a legal play under NBA rules (and the player wouldn't be able to pivot afterward). Third example...player gathers the ball with the left foot on the floor....he jumps off that left foot and lands on both feet simultaneously (considered step 1). Player is allowed to pivot here but wouldn't under NFHS/NCAA rules.

As to the second play, I have nothing at the beginning of the dribble. Player gathered the all with the left foot on the floor, steps with the right, the starts the dribble as the 2nd foot comes to the floor. I do have a travel at the end of the dribble though as I have the player gathering the ball in mid air, stepping with the right foot (step 1), stepping with the left foot (step 2), then stepping with the right again (step 3).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Wasn't he fouled? If he is fouled before he travels and it looks like that based on that would be the only contact that would negate any travel. They did not show the angle from the official's point of view so I am wondering how much of a foul it was, but it appears a foul was called in real time on the right arm while LeBron is in the act of shooting. It may have actually been a travel first, but it appears the call was about a foul as a result. What would have been a better question is should the basket could on a foul where the player "travels" after being fouled?

Peace

Haven't we discussed this extensively; with the conclusion being that you wave off the score and award two shots?

The ball does not become dead on the foul if it's by the defense and the shooting motion has begun. It does, however, become dead when the offense commits a violation. Thus no basket, but two shots.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Haven't we discussed this extensively; with the conclusion being that you wave off the score and award two shots?

The ball does not become dead on the foul if it's by the defense and the shooting motion has begun. It does, however, become dead when the offense commits a violation. Thus no basket, but two shots.

Not sure I remember or were directly involved in those discussions here, but there are discussions I have had about this issue previously. But in this discussion people seem to be intent on that there was a travel and did not seem to focus on the foul that might have affected any travel being called. That is the only reason I pointed that out.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure I remember or were directly involved in those discussions here, but there are discussions I have had about this issue previously. But in this discussion people seem to be intent on that there was a travel and did not seem to focus on the foul that might have affected any travel being called. That is the only reason I pointed that out.

Peace

By rule, it seems pretty simple. Although in practice it won't always be that clear.

Jump shooter goes up, gets fouled, comes down, and releases his shot that goes in. Easy to give him two shots and discount the basket. Player on the floor gets pushed into a travel before he can release the shot, it's a little more complicated.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Player on the floor gets pushed into a travel before he can release the shot, it's a little more complicated.

Not if he gathered the ball & we put a lil' verbal behind the whistle. IJS

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Jump shooter goes up, gets fouled, comes down, and releases his shot that goes in. Easy to give him two shots and discount the basket.

vs.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Player on the floor gets pushed into a travel before he can release the shot, it's a little more complicated.

Just sayin it wouldnt be complicated to award 2 shots here ^^ if we have good post-whistle fundamentals.

Never mentioned air in the whistle...