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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 11:16am
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
But we know why this is. Assignors work for the coaches. If officials T up the coaches, the coaches complain to the assignor. Assignor decides he doesn't need the headache and the official's schedule suffers.

Since nobody wants to lose games because of a coach's complaints, fewer T's are called, even though everyone (including the officials on the games) knows that they are deserved.
I agree...and Bilas actually mentions this in the beginning of the article.

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Why? College basketball officials are independent contractors and are therefore not employees who can be mandated to call games according to certain, strict guidelines. (Don't ask me the logic of how NCAA member institutions can pay "independent contractors" so much money to run on the floor with their "amateurs" and still claim they cannot provide compensation to the players or they will be "employees.") Officials are accountable to a degree but are not totally accountable, as are NBA or NFL officials. College officials are subject to some very real criticism from powerful coaches, both on the sidelines and in direct communication between supervisors and coaches. And the officials are often hamstrung by rules that are antiquated and make no logical sense.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 11:27am
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.

And as far the amount of timeouts, just reduce the number of timeouts coaches can have...or if a coach calls a timeout at a media timeout threshold, charge him his timeout, and make it a media length timeout.
The ten second issue would be solved by Bilas' suggestion to have timeouts granted like in FIBA; through the table. Or, to be honest, taking away the ability for coaches to request a timeout during a live ball would reduce this, too. Again, though, it's not a common problem so I don't see much of a need to make the change.

I could see them adjusting the media timeout situation so that there's a set amount of scheduled media time per game.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 11:39am
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-Freedom of movement: NCAA needs to be more focused on "freedom of movement" like the NBA went to a while back...too much bumping and impeding off ball. Part of the blame is with coaches but officials are the last line of defense

I agree freedom of movement is an issue.

-Protect the shooter: Defenders are vertical up top, but bodying down low

You do see this a little in the game. Lower body contact with arms straight up in the air. It is not call as often as it should be.

-Lose the overly demonstrative gestures and gyrations: Too many officials are overly demonstrative on calls (including charges, bird dogging, out of bounds). Thinks a lot of officials are looking more and more like clowns with the actions

At this level, its about getting the calls right. The problem is some lower level officials see this and thinks it is ok to do it at lower level.

-Negative influence of coaches: too much negative interactions with officials...we don't allow players to do so, yet for some reason we allow coaches to go off the handle. Mandates to whack and toss (if needed) needs to occur

This is an assignor issue. What I have observed is the more established (successful) coaches will get a ton of rope.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 01:28pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.
First of all this does not happen enough to even be an issue at the college level. Secondly the NBA is a different game with different ability of players. I think this would be a terrible rule for the college ranks.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 01:39pm
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First of all this does not happen enough to even be an issue at the college level. Secondly the NBA is a different game with different ability of players. I think this would be a terrible rule for the college ranks.

Peace
I have a hard time seeing how this rule has to do anything with the abilities of the players.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 01:40pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
I heard a recent interview with John Adams (might have been during the tournament) in which he said that he thought there were too many charges being called. So that's probably where Bilas got that piece of ammo.

I personally disagree with their assessment.
Without reviewing every block/charge play and judging on the same criteria to determine correct call/incorrect call, it is difficult to validate the merits of this argument.

However, I as a whole, I think we could do a better job in the following areas:

+ Officials are often misapplying the restricted area rule. Often demonstrating a restricted area mechanic on plays not in the restricted area.

+ Officials are not correctly refereeing whether a player was inside the restricted area (I have seen many calls go incorrectly both ways).

+ Secondary defenders are not picked up and are still laterally sliding underneath an airborne shooter - makes me question whether the official is refereeing the defense.

This is obviously a new rule and I fully expect us to learn and become more experienced as it becomes a regular part of our game. I also see teams adjusting and trying to take fewer charges a la the NBA. There is a reason these calls are the hardest in the game IMO.
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 02:02pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I have a hard time seeing how this rule has to do anything with the abilities of the players.
I do not see why the NBA has this right either. And pros have rules that apply to the talent of their players as well, which is why for example they do not have zone defense without the possibility of a defensive 3 seconds call. Some things need to stay at the pro level and this is one of those levels that need to stay there. We allow timeouts for other saving violations, why not this one?

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 02:32pm
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I do not see why the NBA has this right either. And pros have rules that apply to the talent of their players as well, which is why for example they do not have zone defense without the possibility of a defensive 3 seconds call. Some things need to stay at the pro level and this is one of those levels that need to stay there. We allow timeouts for other saving violations, why not this one?

Peace
I'm not saying the college game needs to adopt defensive three-second violations. Hell, they've already added what previously was one of the biggest rules difference between the two codes.

The only thing I would like to see them adopt is not having the backcourt count start over if a team calls a TO (and to extend that, if the ball goes OOB). I believe it's also how FIBA handles this as well.

It's not that huge of a deal either way...just addressing it since Bilas brought it up the article
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Last edited by APG; Mon Apr 09, 2012 at 02:35pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 03:51pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.
APG, for me this is one of those situations where it's important to remember the rule book applies to more than the ACC, Big 10, Big East, etc. Is some low-level Div. 3 team going to be able to get the ball into frontcourt in 2 seconds after calling a time out when the count is at 8? There are just some things college players can't do which pros can, if only because of practice time.

Having to burn a time out seems like more than enough of a penalty for the offense.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 05:46pm
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Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
APG, for me this is one of those situations where it's important to remember the rule book applies to more than the ACC, Big 10, Big East, etc. Is some low-level Div. 3 team going to be able to get the ball into frontcourt in 2 seconds after calling a time out when the count is at 8? There are just some things college players can't do which pros can, if only because of practice time.

Having to burn a time out seems like more than enough of a penalty for the offense.
I just don't see this as a problem worth wasting time on. How may backcourt timeouts get called? Not very many. You could certainly argue whether the team deserves the count to be restarted or not vs. the price of a timeout.....but it will not materially affect 90+% of the games.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 06:16pm
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Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
APG, for me this is one of those situations where it's important to remember the rule book applies to more than the ACC, Big 10, Big East, etc. Is some low-level Div. 3 team going to be able to get the ball into frontcourt in 2 seconds after calling a time out when the count is at 8? There are just some things college players can't do which pros can, if only because of practice time.

Having to burn a time out seems like more than enough of a penalty for the offense.
You see, I don't see it as a problem if a team has only 2 seconds to advance it after a timeout...no matter the level. Because more likely than not, the defense forced them to waste those 8 seconds. And they're being rewarded for it. Plus, this is how the FIBA rule is (as far as the count not resetting if for instance, the ball goes OOB).
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2012, 11:23pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
You see, I don't see it as a problem if a team has only 2 seconds to advance it after a timeout...no matter the level. Because more likely than not, the defense forced them to waste those 8 seconds. And they're being rewarded for it. Plus, this is how the FIBA rule is (as far as the count not resetting if for instance, the ball goes OOB).
I think the defense's reward is forcing the team to consume one of their timeouts.

And in NCAA rules with a shot clock, the shot clock doesn't reset so the real need for the 10 second count doesn't really even exist. The purpose of the 10 second count and the backcourt rule is to ensure that the offensive team doesn't have use of the entire court indefinitely (remember these both pre-dated the shot clock). With a shot clock, the duration that the offense has is already limited. They're not going to want to stay in the backcourt very long in any case.

IIRC, women's NCAA rules don't even have a backcourt count of any length.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:08am.
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