Call on the court = Block. Your opinion?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

I'm willing to give it another look. At what time is LGP obtained?

As I said earlier, she didn't, IMO.

The "path" goes through "the block". To obtain LGP after sliding in front of the shooter, she must have two feet on the floor while having her torso (not just a foot) over the block. She puts her right foot on the block and is still coming into position. She lifts her left foot in order to shift her torso into the path and never gets it back to the floor before contact....no LGP.

[tref]

Originally Posted by camron rust

as i said earlier, she didn't, imo.

The "path" goes through "the block". To obtain lgp after sliding in front of the shooter, she must have two feet on the floor while having her torso (not just a foot) over the block. she puts her right foot on the block and is still coming into position. She lifts her left foot in order to shift her torso into the path and never gets it back to the floor before contact....no lgp.

+1

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As I said earlier, she didn't, IMO.

The "path" goes through "the block". To obtain LGP after sliding in front of the shooter, she must have two feet on the floor while having her torso (not just a foot) over the block. She puts her right foot on the block and is still coming into position. She lifts her left foot in order to shift her torso into the path and never gets it back to the floor before contact....no LGP.

UHmmmm, Camron it seems that you are adding quite a bit here to the definition of obtaining LGP. I get that you are explaining your position on the call, but that's adding a whole lot to what the rule book actually says.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

UHmmmm, Camron it seems that you are adding quite a bit here to the definition of obtaining LGP. I get that you are explaining your position on the call, but that's adding a whole lot to what the rule book actually says.

What am i adding?

LGP requires the defender to be in the path of the opponent with 2 feet on the floor and facing the opponent. That's it. Right???

The path the opponent takes is right over the block (reference point only). So, that is the only path that matters.

The defender is facing the opponent the entire time...check.

The defender is in a possible path, but is not in "the" actual path of the opponent until the defender gets her body over the block. (an arm, foot, or leg in the path is not in the path).

She has 2 feet on the floor prior to getting to the block but not being in "the" path of the opponent yet, that is not sufficient. Both feet must be on the floor while being in the path. When she is over the block and in "the" path, contact occurs before she can establish position by getting the 2nd foot down.

Again, what am I adding?

[rockyroad]

Guess I was just confused by all the stuff about the block in your other post...but - initial LGP is established when the player has both feet on the ground and the torso facing the opponent...then the defender may move/change within the limits provided in the rules. So the whole "in the path" stuff seems to be your addition.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Guess I was just confused by all the stuff about the block in your other post...but - initial LGP is established when the player has both feet on the ground and the torso facing the opponent...then the defender may move/change within the limits provided in the rules. So the whole "in the path" stuff seems to be your addition.

Not my addition, it is straight from the NFHS and NCAA rulebooks. To obtain LGP, the defender has to satisfy the definition of guarding (in the path) and the requirements for LGP (two feet on the floor, facing, etc.). You can't have LGP at all if you don't satisfy the base requirements of guarding.


NFHS Rule 4, Section 23
ART. 1 . . . Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent. ...... A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position
if contact occurs.
ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.

NCAA Rule 4, Section 35
Art. 1. Guarding shall be the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent.
Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the ball:
a. The guard shall have both fee touching the playing court...

[BillyMac]

Did we scare him away? Where's Jurassic Referee when you really need him?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Did we scare him away? Where's Jurassic Referee when you really need him?

Why? This place is immensely better now. The number of gratuitous insults and the name calling that was sure to occur, and caused a lot of lurkers and new posters to disappear, if you disagreed with him is not something to wish for.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What am i adding?

LGP requires the defender to be in the path of the opponent with 2 feet on the floor and facing the opponent. That's it. Right???

Again, what am I adding?

I don't think you are adding anything. However, you might be missing something, the words "obtaining initial". Again, I am responding with NFHS ruleset in mind and that might be the difference.

What you describe is obtaining initial legal guarding position. Art 3 of Rule 4-23 continues to say that after initial LGP is obtained,

a) the guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status
b) the guard is not required to continue facing the opponent
c) the guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs .....

The dragging left foot, which looks off the floor on the first camera angle, is still sliding in place on contact, but isn't this the case of maintaining LGP and not really obtaining it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BLydic

I don't think you are adding anything. However, you might be missing something, the words "obtaining initial". Again, I am responding with NFHS ruleset in mind and that might be the difference.

What you describe is obtaining initial legal guarding position. Art 3 of Rule 4-23 continues to say that after initial LGP is obtained,

a) the guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status
b) the guard is not required to continue facing the opponent
c) the guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs .....

The dragging left foot, which looks off the floor on the first camera angle, is still sliding in place on contact, but isn't this the case of maintaining LGP and not really obtaining it?

CR is saying in order to establish it, he must have had two feet on the floor "in the path." I think he's taking "in the path" and putting it into a place where it's not intended. Otherwise, there'd be a third criteria listed in "to obtain legal guarding position...."

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

CR is saying in order to establish it, he must have had two feet on the floor "in the path." I think he's taking "in the path" and putting it into a place where it's not intended. Otherwise, there'd be a third criteria listed in "to obtain legal guarding position...."

And that's where I was getting confused...thanks for stating it better than I was.

Jerk.

Now shutup.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And that's where I was getting confused...thanks for stating it better than I was.

Jerk.

Now shutup.

I was starting to question my opinion after a while. Thanks for making me feel less alone.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

CR is saying in order to establish it, he must have had two feet on the floor "in the path." I think he's taking "in the path" and putting it into a place where it's not intended. Otherwise, there'd be a third criteria listed in "to obtain legal guarding position...."

The "in the path" is a global requirement for guarding. It applies to everything about guarding. If you are not in the path, you are not guarding at all. The additional requirements to obtain/maintain LGP are not relevant since you're not even guarding.


If you don't, agree, how about this play....

B3 trailing A4 down the court from behind momentarily has both feet on the floor and is facing A4. B2 is fast enough to pass A4 and steps into A4's path with one foot down and his/her back to A4 just as A4 runs into B3. B2 previously had both feet on the floor and was facing A4 (all from behind) and is now in A4's path. Are you saying this is a charge?


Additionally, since all players have two feet down at some point in the game why have that requirement in obtaining LGP if it didn't go with the additional qualifier of being in the path with two feet down (and facing)?

[rockyroad]

In order to establish LGP, the defender has to have both feet on the floor and the torso facing the offensive player...they are then allowed to move to maintain that LGP. If they move "into the path" with LGP then their movement is legal...they don't have to be "in the path" to obtain LGP.