ND vs Temple

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Duffman:

If you do your due diligence in learning the history of the rules of basketball and the Oswald Tower Philosophy, you will learn the advantage-disadvantage applies to fouls but not to violations.

MTD, Sr.

Odd, as ive seen many quality officials talk players out of three second violations, and minor hand fighting Free throw violations, and players running intentionally oob violations in which no advantage was gained.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Odd, as ive seen many quality officials talk players out of three second violations, and minor hand fighting Free throw violations, and players running intentionally oob violations in which no advantage was gained.

You realized that the "minor hand fighting Free throw violations" are not violations don't you? You can call a foul or not, but there is no violation to be called.

And talking a player out of committing a violation is different than ignore a violation that has already occurred.

[Duffman]

Cameron, I'm referring to the hand fighting going on between two players in marked spaces while the shooter holds the ball.

And I'd accept what you are saying in the event you can tell me honestly that you've never passed on a 3 second violation when a player has a toe in the lane opposite of where the ball is and isn't using his/her position in the lane to gain an advantage, but I doubt you'd be able to do that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Cameron, I'm referring to the hand fighting going on between two players in marked spaces while the shooter holds the ball.

So am I. What kind of violation do you think they have committed?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Cameron, I'm referring to the hand fighting going on between two players in marked spaces while the shooter holds the ball.

And I'd accept what you are saying in the event you can tell me honestly that you've never passed on a 3 second violation when a player has a toe in the lane opposite of where the ball is and isn't using his/her position in the lane to gain an advantage, but I doubt you'd be able to do that.

Like Camron, I'd love to see a rule reference to know what violation these players are committing in your "hand fighting" scenario.

You cannot possibly be comparing the player running from the arc to the block to the big guy with a toe on the FT line.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Like Camron, I'd love to see a rule reference to know what violation these players are committing in your "hand fighting" scenario.

You cannot possibly be comparing the player running from the arc to the block to the big guy with a toe on the FT line.

I'm not comparing them, Im responding to the thought that advantage/disadvantage was not a factor for violations.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Duffman

I'm not comparing them, Im responding to the thought that advantage/disadvantage was not a factor for violations.

That may be, but one of the things you mention is not even a violation, ever.....and brings into question your knowledge of the rules which makes it hard to discuss philosophy of how they should be called.

And A/D is not a factor for violations...it is understanding the purpose of the rule and knowing when to apply it.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That may be, but one of the things you mention is not even a violation, ever.....and brings into question your knowledge of the rules which makes it hard to discuss philosophy of how they should be called.

And A/D is not a factor for violations...it is understanding the purpose of the rule and knowing when to apply it.

But not too hard to argue with evidently... It's called a you can't do that violation and is prevalent in youth and hs girls games. It's preceded by the both of you knock it off mechanic.

Remind me of my lack of rules knowledge as I blow through HS ball and start working d3 college stuff and beyond...

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Like Camron, I'd love to see a rule reference to know what violation these players are committing in your "hand fighting" scenario.

You cannot possibly be comparing the player running from the arc to the block to the big guy with a toe on the FT line.

Its what I call: Playing paddy cake. LOL It is prevalent it girls' games at the H.S. level and below and I tell them to knock it off.

MTD, Sr.

[just another ref]

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

A fair point.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

I believe both violations (yesterday and tonight) were the result of players coming in from outside the 3-point arc, not simply toe-touching within the lane. In the Syracuse game yesterday, the announcers initially focused on players in the lane from a bird's-eye view and how "close" it was, but it wasn't until after the game we saw the actual violation was the player coming in from outside the arc and almost to the block by the time the ball hit the rim. I believe it was the same essential call tonight.

What sucks is the player let his "NBA instincts" take over at that point in the game and he forgot the rule. What also sucks is letting NBA announcers use their NBA training to bash the NCAA officials without really knowing what they're talking about.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

Someone DOES read my posts

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

If someone can show me video of other plays where this player entered from the arc, that early, without a call. Then I'll buy the consistency argument. Otherwise, it's just as much of a load of crap as when I hear it from MS coaches.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If someone can show me video of other plays where this player entered from the arc, that early, without a call. Then I'll buy the consistency argument. Otherwise, it's just as much of a load of crap as when I hear it from MS coaches.

CBSSports channel will replay a bunch of the games. I saw the UNCA game and darn if the same player didn't break the arc AGAIN on the 2nd free throw.
I'm not saying the call was wrong. Even if you are using the advantage/disadvantage the player DID get the rebound. These plays will probably be on a Preventative Officiating portion of next years NCAA video