I have a few questions for the NCAA refs

[rwest]

I don't call at the NCAA level so I don't know what is taught at that level.

1. I've noticed that on screens there seems to be a consensus among the officials to allow for the screener to move his hips into the player being screened. At least in the recent games I've seen.

2. I've seen some officials use a mechanic that I dislike and that I tell younger officials to avoid developing the habit. On a block shot they clamp their hands together similar to the gator chomp but obviously not as dramatic. I have always seen this done by the lead. I tell younger officials to avoid this because if the lead believes there is no foul but the trail sees contact and decides to call it, it doesn't look good having two officials with two different calls. Of course, this is when the T should be calling fouls in the leads primary, for example on rebounding action or a drive to the basket from their primary. Am I wrong to dislike this mechanic? Is it taught at the NCAA level?

[Raymond]

1. I know of no such allowances on screens. In my experiences, I've found that NCAA refs call a lot more illegal screen than HS officials.

2. I don't like the mechanic when in the heat of the play. I've seen officials who do it. I attended a D1 game once where the C did the mechanic but the T had a whistle for a foul. I only use it after the play to communicate long distance to a coach as to why I had no foul call.

[JetMetFan]

Regarding #2: Most of my supervisors/assignors say don't do it because if another whistle comes from somewhere it creates all sorts of problems. I was always told if a kid blocks a shot and I don't do anything, that tells everyone in the gym the play was legal. Some people still do it because they can't break the habit.

I'll duck #1 since I'm NCAAW and this sounds like an NCAAM sort of question. NCAAW are, IMO, a bit more stringent on screens because that game is played below the rim, so screens in general have a bigger effect.

[tref]

1. I think they tend to get the ones that matter most & talk em out of the marginal illegal screens.

2. I dont think of the gator chomp as a "mechanic" IMO its more of a signal to communicate with coaches/players non-verbally. I use it at any level I work to defuse pushback, but only AFTER the play is complete.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Regarding #2: Most of my supervisors/assignors say don't do it because if another whistle comes from somewhere it creates all sorts of problems. I was always told if a kid blocks a shot and I don't do anything, that tells everyone in the gym the play was legal. Some people still do it because they can't break the habit.

I'll duck #1 since I'm NCAAW and this sounds like an NCAAM sort of question. NCAAW are, IMO, a bit more stringent on screens because that game is played below the rim, so screens in general have a bigger effect.

I'm guessing that this 'signal' is delayed by lead and after smoke clears, no whistles, he's good to go. At D1 you're obviously at a top level and partners know this and can work in sync.

It's a gasoline can near a fire for high school, there is no need what so ever to do this and can only lead to trouble. I haven't seen it much in my games, but it does crop up in kids games from less experienced officials.

To tag onto your OP, what is the 'signal' I've seen on a close play, typically by lead again I believe, where it appears to be a variation of a stop sign as official doesn't want to hear any commentary on a passed call?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by tref

2. I dont think of the gator chomp as a "mechanic" IMO its more of a signal to communicate with coaches/players non-verbally. I use it at any level I work to defuse pushback, but only AFTER the play is complete.

I don't like it. No offense intended, but I believe it is a mechanic used to tell the fans and coaches to get off my back, it was a blocked shot and not a foul. The problem is when your partner calls a foul. Also, you don't know when the play is truly complete because your partner may be having a patient whistle and come a little late to get the foul. The fact that you did not call a foul tells everyone in the gym you thought it was a blocked shot. No need for this mechanic. It adds no additional information and it will likely one day cause you some grief because of your partner calling a foul. It probably hasn't happened yet, but there's a chance it will in the future.

[JRutledge]

1. I am with BNR on this one. I see more calls in NCAA games than I do in HS period, not just on illegal screens.

2. I have used it and do not use it immediately during a blocked shot. I use it to sell a held ball or when we are going in the other direction. It is rarely used by me, but I do use it on some level.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rwest

I don't like it. No offense intended, but I believe it is a mechanic used to tell the fans and coaches to get off my back, it was a blocked shot and not a foul. The problem is when your partner calls a foul. Also, you don't know when the play is truly complete because your partner may be having a patient whistle and come a little late to get the foul. The fact that you did not call a foul tells everyone in the gym you thought it was a blocked shot. No need for this mechanic. It adds no additional information and it will likely one day cause you some grief because of your partner calling a foul. It probably hasn't happened yet, but there's a chance it will in the future.

If it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

2. I don't like the mechanic when in the heat of the play. I've seen officials who do it. I attended a D1 game once where the C did the mechanic but the T had a whistle for a foul. I only use it after the play to communicate long distance to a coach as to why I had no foul call.

I will file that one away in the library. Thanks!

[APG]

Timing is important in using the signal...for the most part, you don't see officials using the signal right as the action is finishing...there's usually a delay to accommodate for the fact that there might be a whistle from someone's secondary. Of course, if your partner(s) come in any later than that, there's gonna be an issue anyhow with the opposing coach.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the signal when used correctly. It's just another means of giving additional information that can help with coaches/players.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by groupthink

if it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

Hey,

This screen name is not authorized!

This does not occur around here.

[tref]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

If it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by rwest

I don't call at the NCAA level so I don't know what is taught at that level.

1. I've noticed that on screens there seems to be a consensus among the officials to allow for the screener to move his hips into the player being screened. At least in the recent games I've seen.

2. I've seen some officials use a mechanic that I dislike and that I tell younger officials to avoid developing the habit. On a block shot they clamp their hands together similar to the gator chomp but obviously not as dramatic. I have always seen this done by the lead. I tell younger officials to avoid this because if the lead believes there is no foul but the trail sees contact and decides to call it, it doesn't look good having two officials with two different calls. Of course, this is when the T should be calling fouls in the leads primary, for example on rebounding action or a drive to the basket from their primary. Am I wrong to dislike this mechanic? Is it taught at the NCAA level?

1. it happens and your observation has some truth to it.

2. i agree its bad and should not be used. Everyone in the gym seen what happened. If a question arises from a coach a simple " it was a clean block" is sufficient.

[tref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

2. i agree its bad and should not be used. Everyone in the gym seen what happened. If a question arises from a coach a simple.

If everyone in the gym saw it, why is there still a question?

Originally Posted by truerookie

" it was a clean block" is sufficient.

During a live ball? Suppose coach is asking the old L, new T, who happens to be opposite table?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by tref

If everyone in the gym saw it, why is there still a question?



During a live ball? Suppose coach is asking the old L, new T, who happens to be opposite table?

This particular play may still cause for questioning when there is contact after the block and the coach may want a foul.

If the old L had a look he/she may answer as long as he/she maintain positive eye contact on the player while transitioning.

new T which is the old L. Should not have a whistle unless the contact is below the shoulders.