I have a few questions for the NCAA refs

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by tref

During a live ball? Suppose coach is asking the old L, new T, who happens to be opposite table?

Any coach worth his salt will know that rotation will bring the official to whom he wants to speak next to him very shortly and he will ask his question or make his point with that official at that time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

I don't like it, but it's because the partners I see using it do it during the play. They do it on plays in my primary.

I'm lead, shot goes up in our joint area towards the top of the lane, and the T (2 whistle) is giving the tip signal before the ball even hits the floor on a blocked shot. I've got no problem with it being used afterwards, by people who have a better sense of timing due to experience.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by truerookie

...
new T which is the old L. Should not have a whistle unless the contact is below the shoulders.

Really? So if the Lead sees B1 elbow contacting A1's head while B1 is blocking the shot he's supposed to ignore it?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Really? So if the Lead sees B1 elbow contacting A1's head while B1 is blocking the shot he's supposed to ignore it?

Really!! T or C should be aggressive in ensuring they catch that level of contact.

From your question, you believe the L is justified in calling a push from behind too.

[tref]

A push from behind isnt in the same category as a shot to the dome.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Really!! T or C should be aggressive in ensuring they catch that level of contact.

From your question, you believe the L is justified in calling a push from behind too.

If he's worked to get a good angle (which is possible on many such fouls), then yes. If he's straight lined; no.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If he's worked to get a good angle (which is possible on many such fouls), then yes. If he's straight lined; no.

True, but I think C/T get first crack at it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

True, but I think C/T get first crack at it.

With three, yep.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by tref

A push from behind isnt in the same category as a shot to the dome.

Why not? A shot to the dome can occur from behind as well as from the front. The lead to call that too? My point is if that level of contact occurred the T or C should be aggressive in getting it instead of the lead.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If he's worked to get a good angle (which is possible on many such fouls), then yes. If he's straight lined; no.

Originally Posted by tref

True, but I think C/T get first crack at it.

Nobody said they shouldn't. We're addressing Mr. GroupThink's assertion that the Lead can't call any contact above the shoulders.

Originally Posted by truerookie

Really!! T or C should be aggressive in ensuring they catch that level of contact.

What level of contact? I didn't say it was severe. I said an elbow clips the shooter's head during a blocked shot. There plenty of play scenarios where the T or C might not see contact to the head depending on the positioning of the players involved.

Originally Posted by truerookie

From your question, you believe the L is justified in calling a push from behind too.

I fail to see the correlation between my question and this assertion. Maybe you could enlighten me since I'm not part of your particular GroupThink Tank.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by tref

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

But I didn't understand it to mean when the ball is going the other way. If there is definitely no way that another official may whistle a foul on the play, then my main objection to it is irrelevant. However, at the high school level I see it more right after a shot is blocked. There is still a potential for a whistle. I guess its just one of those things we can disagree on. I don't like it and don't want younger officials getting into the habit. I guess you can argue that you are providing more information. You are saying you saw it and judged it was not a foul. However, my argument is that not calling the foul says the same thing.

[rwest]

I'm not condoning not addressing a coach. The times I see it the coach isn't yelling at the official. Now to be fair most of the time I'm seeing this is at a middle school or high school rec game. Although, one of the officials using it is a good young HS official. I'm just trying to get him out of the habit.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Nobody said they shouldn't. We're addressing Mr. GroupThink's assertion that the Lead can't call any contact above the shoulders.



What level of contact? I didn't say it was severe. I said an elbow clips the shooter's head during a blocked shot. There plenty of play scenarios where the T or C might not see contact to the head depending on the positioning of the players involved.



I fail to see the correlation between my question and this assertion. Maybe you could enlighten me since I'm not part of your particular GroupThink Tank.

lol, first of all, I have stated the T or C should be aggressive with contact above the shoulders and the L should worry about contact below the shoulders.

Second, if there is a shot to the dome, IMO, the T or C should grab it. That's play at or above the rim.

Third, If the T or C cannot see the contact to the head depending on their positioning (they elect not to move to continue to see between the players).

Finally, who appointed me CEO of GroupThink Tank?

[tref]

Originally Posted by rwest

But I didn't understand it to mean when the ball is going the other way. If there is definitely no way that another official may whistle a foul on the play, then my main objection to it is irrelevant. However, at the high school level I see it more right after a shot is blocked. There is still a potential for a whistle. I guess its just one of those things we can disagree on. I don't like it and don't want younger officials getting into the habit. I guess you can argue that you are providing more information. You are saying you saw it and judged it was not a foul. However, my argument is that not calling the foul says the same thing.

I understand your point rwest. I didn't say "going the other way" because "after the play completes" is more accurate as we can have an offensive rebound that gets kicked back out to begin a new play on the same end.
I used to have that mindset, but what I noticed is that the great communicators of the game are generally the most successful.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

I understand your point rwest. I didn't say "going the other way" because "after the play completes" is more accurate as we can have an offensive rebound that gets kicked back out to begin a new play on the same end.
I used to have that mindset, but what I noticed is that the great communicators of the game are generally the most successful.

Let me ask you this:
Are you offering the information without being asked? Or are you using the signal only on plays where the coach starts questioning a no-call?