State Tourney

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How far onto the court?

I had to look at it again. (I love the DVR.) It was a close-up shot, so it was hard to judge, but I'd say 5-10 feet.

Originally Posted by wfd21

Hey Bainsey... I saw this but it didn't dawn on me.

There's another one from that game just dawned on me, too. Remember this?

Third quarter, 6:31 left, A-40 commits a common foul near B's endline, but it's reported as A-10, his fourth foul. B doesn't score on the possession.

As A brings the ball back the other way, A-10 releases a pass near the division line, then, at 6:03, crashes into B-4 for a team control foul. That makes five fouls for A-10, who takes a seat without incident.

Coach A insists the previous foul was on A-40, and after a minute of conferring, the crew credits the foul correctly, thereby making A-10 eligible again. It was an unusual sequence, but in the end, the right call was made.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know why we act like officials at that level are perfect.

You're right, JRut, perfection is unattainable. However, in the eyes of us lesser respected officials, we see the tournament and championship-game officials as those we need to emulate. We begin to believe that we need to do exactly what they do to achieve the respect they've earned.

In truth, we shouldn't be looking solely at the mistakes, but they're the things that come most easily to mind. Ultimately, we should probably break down the entire body of work that pinpoints their effectiveness, in contrast with the rest of ours. In other words, ask what separates the championship official from the pack.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by bainsey

State title game last night. Roughly two minutes left, A-33 (whose team has a healthy lead) gets a steal, dunks the ball, and mouths off to B-32. New trail is right there for the T.

A-45 (who had his warm-up shirt on, don't know actual number) comes off the bench to do a celebratory body bump with A-33. I immediately look to see if the crew does anything about it. They don't. Can't say that I blame them (and my son's team is the losing team on this night).

By rule would we assess the TF to A-45 or A-33?
Thinking about it. A-45 for leaving the bench area? A-33 is equally at fault for the bump. I haven't really thought of this situation.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I had to look at it again. (I love the DVR.) It was a close-up shot, so it was hard to judge, but I'd say 5-10 feet.


There's another one from that game just dawned on me, too. Remember this?

Third quarter, 6:31 left, A-40 commits a common foul near B's endline, but it's reported as A-10, his fourth foul. B doesn't score on the possession.

As A brings the ball back the other way, A-10 releases a pass near the division line, then, at 6:03, crashes into B-4 for a team control foul. That makes five fouls for A-10, who takes a seat without incident.

Coach A insists the previous foul was on A-40, and after a minute of conferring, the crew credits the foul correctly, thereby making A-10 eligible again. It was an unusual sequence, but in the end, the right call was made.


You're right, JRut, perfection is unattainable. However, in the eyes of us lesser respected officials, we see the tournament and championship-game officials as those we need to emulate. We begin to believe that we need to do exactly what they do to achieve the respect they've earned.

In truth, we shouldn't be looking solely at the mistakes, but they're the things that come most easily to mind. Ultimately, we should probably break down the entire body of work that pinpoints their effectiveness, in contrast with the rest of ours. In other words, ask what separates the championship official from the pack.

We're not infallible but there are some things we shouldn't mess up, pressure or not. As Rich pointed out, it took three people to kick the one-shot IF situation.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

By rule would we assess the TF to A-45 or A-33?
Thinking about it. A-45 for leaving the bench area?

A-45, as he came off the bench without permission.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My point on the intentional foul is that it requires *three* officials to screw that up. I'm not talking judgment, here.

I know that if I'm working the game, I'm coming in and making sure this is done right. I've called 2 INT fouls on made baskets in the last 5 years (one of the players is now playing at Tennessee and had a heckuva game yesterday against Vandy) and while the opposing coach was left scratching his head, I know I got the call correct.

3 officials getting this wrong is really inexcusable.

Had the same situation on a game Saturday, kid scores on a fastbreak & gets shoved in the back. I call the INT foul from C & tell the L (R) what we have... the T comes in & says we should be shooting 1 because the basket went

As JRut stated the pressure is increased this time of year & I agree. But pressure bursts pipes, rise to the occasion.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Had the same situation on a game Saturday, kid scores on a fastbreak & gets shoved in the back. I call the INT foul from C & tell the L (R) what we have... the T comes in & says we should be shooting 1 because the basket went

As JRut stated the pressure is increased this time of year & I agree. But pressure bursts pipes, rise to the occasion.

To me, there are just some mistakes you shouldn't be making at this time of the year. And not properly giving 2 free throws on an Intentional Foul is definitely one of them. There is just no way that all 3 members of a post-season crew can have the same brain fart.

[tref]

^^ I agree but it all depends on how one got there. Did we work hard & earn it or are we boys with the decision makers

[Adam]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

By rule would we assess the TF to A-45 or A-33?
Thinking about it. A-45 for leaving the bench area? A-33 is equally at fault for the bump. I haven't really thought of this situation.

Having just called one on 33, I'm giving the second one to 45 in this case.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

To me, there are just some mistakes you shouldn't be making at this time of the year. And not properly giving 2 free throws on an Intentional Foul is definitely one of them. There is just no way that all 3 members of a post-season crew can have the same brain fart.

That's what bugs me, too. I can understand mistakes, errors in judgment, missed calls, etc. I can understand fixing an error that isn't correctable. I can understand waving off a shooting foul. I can even understand the violation called on the jump ball when the jumper catches it after it bounces.

I have a harder time when basic rules are screwed up. Assigning a six-player T to the coach. Calling a travel on a caught air ball. Not giving the right number of FTs.

[JeroenB]

I didn't read through the entire conversation, but did I get it correct that under US rules (college/HS) the number of freethrows awarded for an intentional foul is always two?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

I didn't read through the entire conversation, but did I get it correct that under US rules (college/HS) the number of freethrows awarded for an intentional foul is always two?

Unless it's on a 3-point attempt, then it's 3.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Unless it's on a 3-point attempt, then it's 3.

Just to be anal

On a missed 3-pt attempt it's 3 free throws. A made 3-pointer would only get 2 free throws.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

I didn't read through the entire conversation, but did I get it correct that under US rules (college/HS) the number of freethrows awarded for an intentional foul is always two?

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Unless it's on a missed 3-point attempt, then it's 3.

Fixed it for you.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Fixed it for you.

I don't know whether to be grateful or annoyed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Fixed it for you.

But not fast enough.