The Official Forum - Incorrect travel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 828674)

Come on now....we're talking about making violation calls that are close and tough to see from 40 feet away where it is more likely a matter of judgement than a matter of who is right...and I'm going with the guy 10' from the play over the lead who is 40' away and shouldn't even be looking that on a play that is not by any stretch of the imagination an OMG play. If he had come in to get it, we may very well have had another poster writing about a partner who made an AT&T call and got it completely wrong.

Plus, I have a hard time believing the trail was looking at backs and butt on a trap at half court but the lead had a clear view into the play...that seems like the trappers were on the wrong side of the play and the offensive player would have had a clear path to the basket....or the description is not quite accurate.

I would rather see a clip before I'm 100 percent whether the lead should have been looking out there. I could envision a scenario where the lead could be looking out there. From what tref has told us, his partner was glad he got the additional information. Plus the people who assigned him the game said the particular plays were egregious and important enough to where the additional information given on the play was the right thing to do. Obviously, he did something right. And ultimately, the tape will prove whether he was right or not.

I guess I had more of a problem with how MTD responded more than anything. We can debate whether the off-ball official could/should have/or not helped with additional information, but that's exactly what this should be...a discussion. No need to imply incompetence by saying tref has no idea or concept about something as simple as PCA's or officiating off-ball outside one's PCA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828697)

So...you are going to use Grandma's advice when the crowd boos and moans, but not when a group of officials are on one accord? Interesting.:)

No... but I'd like to think I'm experienced enough to tell the difference between "boo he called a foul on us" & "boo WTf is that"
I'm hoping you do too :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828698)

Do you always make decisions or form an opinion based on what everybody else in the gym saw? Using your thinking everybody in the gym should have a whistle since what they see is the correct ruling on plays. Right?

See above. I know, some people are born with it, others learn it, but there are many signs that just jump out at ya when something just aint right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828701)

When read after everything else in this thread, I think this sounds kind of arrogant. Did you let him go use the bathroom at halftime?

No, but I did share with him how he could position adjust to get the A look on that particular play. I also shared with him how we shouldn't call travels based solely on the movement of feet :rolleyes:
And when I completed that convo he was very open & thankful for the insight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828701)

You may have did something right to get that championship, but if you have been perfect since then you should quit right now.

Nope wasnt perfect then & far from it now but I'm better than I was in '10.
Always striving for perfection but I'll settle for excellence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828701)

I think you should have called travel in your first play. Some things should just be called. Keep things simple and this whole situation wouldn't have happened. Now, you could have been surprised and simply missed the jump ball.

How can one travel without HOLDING A LIVE BALL INBOUNDS. I think you should re-read the 1st play then holla back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828701)

In the third play, you didn't answer a question from before: who was watching the other 7 players? Some things you shouldn't see. The fact that you see all of these plays makes me think you may be a ball watcher.

3rd repost:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828587)

Pressing transition situation remember? Sorry but I dont stand on the endline in ther f/c while all 10 players & my partners are in the backcourt. By the time the offense achieved f/c status I still was not on the endline as no players were below the 3 point line.

This play was on the opposite sideline & opened up to tableside. The entire bench & grandma in the 19th row could see the defenders hand on the inside of the ball pulling the offense forward into a travel. Instead of the T position adjusting by stepping up & onto the court he got stuck in the mud & called a travel.
Tea would definitely had to have been served up if WE didnt get this play right. And I hate whacking on top of incorrect calls!!!

Cant find the other post that says the T left 3 players 1 defender & 2 offensive players in the b/c. That’s what I was originally looking in that direction for & just happened to get luck & catch the held ball.
Reading is FUNdamental ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 828701)

Advancing doesn't always mean an official is the best official. Assignors do not know everything and sometimes choose championship officials based on social factors. Not saying that applies to you, but to simply say you have worked championships doesn't mean...

That's your opinion, you sir or anyone else are not gonna take that away from me. I got it because I earned it & in year 4 at that. I know that makes people sick but oh phuckin well... I plan on getting more too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828802)

No... but I'd like to think I'm experienced enough to tell the difference between "boo he called a foul on us" & "boo WTf is that"
I'm hoping you do too :)

See above. I know, some people are born with it, others learn it, but there are many signs that just jump out at ya when something just aint right.

No, but I did share with him how he could position adjust to get the A look on that particular play. I also shared with him how we shouldn't call travels based solely on the movement of feet :rolleyes:
And when I completed that convo he was very open & thankful for the insight.

Nope wasnt perfect then & far from it now but I'm better than I was in '10.
Always striving for perfection but I'll settle for excellence.

How can one travel without HOLDING A LIVE BALL INBOUNDS. I think you should re-read the 1st play then holla back.

3rd repost:

Cant find the other post that says the T left 3 players 1 defender & 2 offensive players in the b/c. That’s what I was originally looking in that direction for & just happened to get luck & catch the held ball.
Reading is FUNdamental ;)

That's your opinion, you sir or anyone else are not gonna take that away from me. I got it because I earned it & in year 4 at that. I know that makes people sick but oh phuckin well... I plan on getting more too!

Where is Jurassic when we need him!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 828809)

Where is Jurassic when we need him!

Be a man & do it yourself!
Dont be a U2 looking for an R to do your dirty work...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 828809)

Where is Jurassic when we need him!

You're assuming we need him. :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828644)

2. I would never be on any court with you as I have already graduated from your brand of basketball.

I'd simply walk away as I do with most old timers that haven't camped in over a decade :rolleyes:

Wow...

As one who can tell you flat out that I have worked levels of basketball that you have not made it to, this post right here tells me all I need to know about you.

The attitude expressed in that post will cost you in the future. At some point you will take that attitude toward someone and then find out that they are in a position to cause you grief.

Either lose the attitude, or expect that whatever championship it was that you worked will be the highest level you will make it to.

Disagree with people all you want. Argue rules, mechanics, positioning, call selection, etc., etc. But the BS you spewed in that post WILL hurt you if you don't get it under control and keep it under control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 828815)

Wow...

So Mark gets to blast me & quite frankly, threaten me over the internet, but I cannot retort. Okay :rolleyes:

Isnt he the one that posts about 3rd grade games ALL the time??
I simply said I've graduated from his brand of basketball so we wouldn't be on the same court anytime soon. WTF?

Already made it past that C'Ship level the following summer, but thanks anyway :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828802)

...
That's your opinion, you sir or anyone else are not gonna take that away from me. I got it because I earned it & in year 4 at that. I know that makes people sick but oh phuckin well... I plan on getting more too!

Which people is that?

tref, I'm quite sure on the court you and I are very similar in how we call and see plays and what deem is or isn't important in managing a game. And off the court I'm pretty confident you and I probably are a lot alike also.

But when it comes to discussing officiating, you exude complete arrogance. You talk as if every time you learn something new and latch on to it that you are Moses returning from the mountain with a new commandment for the masses to adhere to. And if we question it or disagreed with its validity then there is something wrong with us and we'll be stuck building pyramids for the rest of our existence. Nevermind that we might have heard these "commandants" before or that they are just re-packaged "commandments" with the words moved around or they may not apply to how we are expected to officiate in our venues.

There is more than one way to get to the top. People have risen faster than you without the teachings you have received and people have faltered while receiving the exact same teachings that you receive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828822)

From things you have posted, I know that you have the opportunity to move to higher levels in your career. I offered you some advice and your response is to make excuses and point your finger at other people, and try to downplay the attitude that you exuded in your earlier post.

Like I tried to say before - that crap will come back to bite you if you don't get it under control now.

BNR & rocky, you guys are right!
I'll make the necessary adjustments effective immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 828832)

Yep, if it seeps out here no doubt it does else where. And there will be a point when there are 5 equally talented candidates competing for 2 spots and then the conservation turns to "well, what kind of feel to you get from ####?, what have you heard about him?" and the boss turns his mentor, the old guy who never sniffed the NBA or a NCAA Final Four but helped guide the boss to where he is today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828822)

You might want to check which Mark you're referring to....there is more than one. And the level of ball a person choose to work doesn't necessarily indicate how good of an official they are. There are other reasons people work games.

As long as Mark (either one) can get down the court, I'd take him any day over some young punk who thinks they're better than all the other officials on the court and that their view of a play is the only view. Officials that constantly "cover" their partner's "misses" eventually find they don't have any partners to work with.

I see what I think are wrong calls by my partners probably every game. Sometimes, with partners I'm comfortable with, I bring it up in post game (or half time). Some of those times, I find out I was wrong...there was an element to the situation I hadn't seen. Sometimes, it is splitting hairs (perhaps deciding whether the player had control or not) and neither is more right than the other. Sometimes I was right...I saw something they didn't see. And, a few times, I'll step in on the court and give them more info.....but it has to be something absolutely necessary before I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828802)

And when I completed that convo he was very open & thankful for the insight.

Editor's note - what is really meant by this sentence is: "And when I completed that convo, instead of rolling his eyes, he pretended to be interested and thankful. He realized he was working with "that guy", and decided to just get through it.

I worked with you a couple of weeks ago. Not YOU you... but you nonetheless. Every association has a "you". Every call on the field/court/gridiron is YOURS - the rest of your crew are just there to assist you and learn from your insight. The worst part is that "you" always leave a game thinking that you've taught your underlings and they thank their lucky stars they've had the opportunity, not realizing that they are leaving the game thinking, "Man, what a tool. I must ask my assignor not to put me with that guy again."

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 828824)

Yeah, THAT...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 828834)

BNR & rocky, you guys are right!
I'll make the necessary adjustments effective immediately.

And tref, I'm not bashing you. I'm just being straight like I would expect from anybody to be with me. Honestly I would hate for you to one day hit a road block or regress, not because you weren't talented enough, but because you rubbed somebody the wrong one way. And often that person is not the one making the decision, but someone the decision-maker trusts and includes in his inner circle. There is a guy here who is reminds me a lot of you. Very talented, on the "radar", has been to D-League camp. Gets plays right and is fun to be around when the fellas are bullsh!tting. But man, he lets that "I wanna be a pro official" attitude seep out a lot, and it's noticeable, both on the court and when we are talking basketball in the locker room. You never know who the guy next to you knows.

My bucket list doesn't include the NBA or D-League or the D1 Final Four, but I do have a "list" of 8 things (5 of which I can cross off), and I know on a few occasions I've rub some folks the wrong way and I have been fortunate that I have had people close to me who have pulled me aside to let me know.