Incorrect travel
 

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

Play #1: I assume the word "cap" means that B1 placed his hand(s) on the ball and prevented A1 from releasing it on a try; if that is the case, then the correct ruling is a Held Ball (HB).


Play #2: I need more information. Did A1 bobble the ball while still in contact with floor or was he already airborne? This could be a HTBT play.


Play #3: B1 having his hand firmly on the ball does not necessarily mean that a HB has occured. Example: A1 is holding the ball in front of himself using both hands (one on each side of the ball), B1 is defending A1 and places his right hand firmly on top of the ball; this is not a HB. Again, this is probably a HTBT play.

You don't in any of them.

MTD, Sr.

1. Could be. Is it a held ball or did B knock the ball loose?
2. Need more info.
3. Likely not. I see no indication of undue roughness.

Yes, he gathered the ball on the floor, bobbled while taking his first step, regained control & scored.

Let him live & die in all cases, thanks!

Can't travel unless you're holding the ball (one exception noted) so this is just an "ugly".....but not a travel.

But, I'm not going to offer input on my partner's call on this one since it is a judgement about whether and when the player was in control/holding the ball.

As for the the others...

#1, if the official had a "cap" worthy of a held ball, the official should call it....otherwise stay out of it. The partner may be getting it wrong, technically, but this is not the kind of play that I want to get involved in on the court. We can talk about it later....for all I know, he/she saw it completely differently than I did.

#3 The Trail will have to deal this on their own. I have no business watching a trap that is 40-50 feet from me.....in fact, I once had a partner, as lead and across the court on the endline, make a call (not traveling or held ball) from a similar position when I was the trail and under 10 feet from the play with a perfect angle and he was 100% wrong. The coach let him know...and, after the game, I let him know.

1st situation I definitely offer information.

2nd situation I'm staying clear

3rd situation if I'm close enough to sell that I had a great look, then I would offer information. If for some reason I'm long distance, I leave it alone.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

Yup, I did it just as you described yes on 1 & 3, no on 2.
Partners took the info & went held ball on both with no hesitation or "are you sure."

It's obvious that we are in the same area :D
They just dont hire 3 individuals out here, they hire a crew of 3.
I'm guessing our non-helpers would rather throw it in their partners face after the game as opposed to getting it right during the game... even in the play-offs :eek:

I was picturing play #1 in the middle of the lane. In this case, I'm coming to get a held ball.

I misread #3 as if I was the C. I would never come over as the L in situation #3. Sorry for the confusion.

Haha, that's funny cause I edited my answer. As the L, that's one hell of a long way to look to know with clarity that you had it right. That's why I'm staying away.

Frankly, that's a harsh judgment that's not warranted.

1989 mind-set :rolleyes:

PCA means PRIMARY COVERAGE AREA not EXCLUSIVE COVERAGE AREA & if its your PRIMARY its probably someone elses SECONDARY.

TRUST YOUR PARTNERS but help em out when they are staightlined, when they dont position adjust, when they're looking where they shouldn't be & get the damn play right!

Nobody is losing by 1 point in my games because of the IC plays I described.
Talking about it after the game may help the official (who doesnt belong on the court this time of year if they dont know those basics) but it doesnt do justice to the GAME or the participants involved in the 1 point loss.

Same question for #1 and #2. Who made the call (T, L, C) and who had the great look (T, L, C)?

For #3 I don't see how T can have ALL backs and butts and how the Lead can see play so clearly and easily. Definitely would leave #3 alone.

Pressing transition situation remember? Sorry but I dont stand on the endline in ther f/c while all 10 players & my partners are in the backcourt. By the time the offense achieved f/c status I still was not on the endline as no players were below the 3 point line.

This play was on the opposite sideline & opened up to tableside. The entire bench & grandma in the 19th row could see the defenders hand on the inside of the ball pulling the offense forward into a travel. Instead of the T position adjusting by stepping up & onto the court he got stuck in the mud & called a travel.
Tea would definitely had to have been served up if WE didnt get this play right. And I hate whacking on top of incorrect calls!!!

Do whats right for the game, dont let positioning deter you from offering assistance on an OBVIOUS incorrect call.

Perhaps, but you did read post #7. Frankly, if you arent going to help me with an incorrect call when there's something I can do about it, then dont bring it up in the lockerroom.
I can see waiting to discuss judgment on a ticky tack foul call because there is nothing we can do at the point. But we can fix incorrect violation rulings.

I'm glad the committee that passes us through from week 1 to week 2 dont have the same old school mindset as some Forum members. I was told those were good help situations from the guys that gave me games this week.

L goes against the pregame & calls the above the rim play a travel. I was T & told him what I & just about everybody else in the gym saw.

I described #3 clearly a couple times already. No players in the f/c on this pressing transitions situation... what am I to do stand 94' away & wait for em to head my way? OR go find the next matchup?

In situation #1, I'm thinking of giving a couple of "tweet tweets" and a verbal, held ball came first partner. So I'm basically just taking the play.

In situation #3, I don't mind offering information if you have it. Ultimately, the T has the responsibility to correct it, so if you say "there was clearly a hand on the ball that caused the travel" and the T says "I don't agree". But the point would be I'm handling this in a brief, concise conference if I felt I had a great look. But very seldom have I ever had a great look from the L at a trap that took place at the 28' line.

So from prior experience of not having had great looks at those plays, I'm probably leaving #3 alone.

I'm far more likely than I used to be to offer help on these plays if I see it clearly.

Your further description of the above-the-rim play makes more sense. I'm assuming you let it go because the ball was released; but it seems to me the play should have been a held ball from the start. Isn't that T's call?

Well, in #1 if you are the T and have the ball going to the hole you should have been on top of the play and called a held ball before the L's whistle.

For #2 you still haven't explained where you were and where the calling official was. But it's possible it was just poor judgment by the calling official or it's possible there was a travel and you misread the play.

For #3, don't remember seeing a clear description until after I asked, my bad if you were clear before my post. Don't remember anybody saying to be 94' away. I know I always help on the press. As described you should have been stronger in officiating your secondary since you recognized the C was out of position and you should have came in strong with a held ball call before the C had a whistle on the play.

In fact I still don't see a clear description of #3 since you originally say you were L and T missed the call then later say you were across the court and had a clear view. :confused:

You seem to assume that everyone who is not going to throw his partner under the bus in a situation where he was NOT the primary and partner was, is looking to throw it in partners face.

In all 3 cases, why is your "great look" better than his? (Heck ... in number 3, why in the world do YOU have a great look and what were the other 7 players doing who WERE your responsibility at this moment --- you should have NO look on this play, as in - you shouldn't be looking at it!)

If you are working in a playoff game, surely your partner has earned the right to make calls in his area. If you are THAT much better that your looks from an inferior position should trump his looks from a superior position ... why is this guy on the court in a playoff game???!!!

Actually, when he popped, I & everybody else in the building just knew we'd see 2 thumbs up. When I saw the travel signal, coming over the top would not be the proper way. So I gave him the info & he corrected in less than 10 seconds. Same official as your "alley oop 3 point shot" btw!!

In situation #3, I don't mind offering information if you have it. Ultimately, the T has the responsibility to correct it, so if you say "there was clearly a hand on the ball that caused the travel" and the T says "I don't agree". But the point would be I'm handling this in a brief, concise conference if I felt I had a great look. But very seldom have I ever had a great look from the L at a trap that took place at the 28' line.

So from prior experience of not having had great looks at those plays, I'm probably leaving #3 alone.[/QUOTE]

Actually, due to the pushback in unison from an entire section on this play where he could not see the ball & the feet (which btw we shouldn't be calling travels unless you can see both of those things!) he had the look of relief on his face as I approached & again, less than 10 seconds WE got a BIG play right in a BIG game.

If any partner(s) dont agree, then it is what it is. As long as my immediate supervisor saw me attempt to provide the same info that shows up on film, Im covered! It would suck to get the call saying, "You're standing there with an open look. Did you see the held ball? Why didnt you help your team?"
"Dont expect a Sunday night email!"

1. Where is the official who calls a travel? Where are you?
If you are primary, you should have a whistle. Then it's easy to come together and discuss on the double-whistle.
There are some situations in which the secondary official can create a double-whistle purposely just to allow for help with a play and there are other situations in which it just isn't a possibility.

2. Stay out of this one. It isn't technically correct, but so many people call this a violation that the coaches and players accept it. Just let your partner live and die with his decision.

3. Definitely stay out of this one. The player with the ball is not airborne as required for one part of the held ball rule, and the other part about undue roughness is a judgment call. This could be a travel BY RULE. Just because an opponent placed a hand on the ball doesn't mean that it is a held ball. Let your partner officiate the play.

No doubt, just as I'm about to call it, he beat me to it. I cant make everyone have a patient whistle...

Please tell us why this matters?

Agreed. The more you talk the more I wonder why this guy was on the court.

Sir, your motivation is skewed. (And no supervisor I know would blast an official for not fishing in his partner's pond).

Major problem with your thinking here. It is not YOUR game! :(

Might be a true statement, but this isn't for you to decide. Officials receive postseason assignments for all sorts of reasons. That is for those who are responsible for the assignment making or the design of the selection process. If those people don't like the decisions which certain officials make, then it is up to them to change who they select or the process itself. It is not the job of any one official working the contest to go over-rule the decisions of other officials on the court. Unfortunately, that seems to be the path that you have followed.
You can't officiate the whole court. There is a reason that basketball games are not assigned with only one official.
What about plays that are unseen by you during the contest? You need to learn to let others make decisions even if you don't like them. You don't get to make every call. That's just the way it is.

To Nevada: +1
To Tref - no offense sir, but there's a word used for officials that assume their calls from far away and out of position are automatically better than calls from his partner(s) from close up and IN position... That word is "arrogant". (And at least around here, another phrase that fits is "short career".)

Everbody doesnt have a patient whistle...

He was L & I was T... didnt offer any help because they were losing anyway & no pushback from the coach. And no, the film says I got it right ;)

I think popping 1st in someone elses primary is a lack of trust. I trust you to get it right, until you dont, then help is offered.

3 Bs is the principle for calling outside of my primary:
- Be late (give them an opportunity)
- Be needed (no borderline violations)
- Be right (Im always trying to beat the film)

Grandma always said EVERYbody aint crazy. You've been around long enough to tell difference between
a. the boo of disgruntled fans because you called it on their team
b. everyone reacts negatively in unison on a kicked play.

well, at least I hope you can tell the difference!

You gotta really suck to not get a post season game in week 1 around here.

I know a few, but I better not mention any names :D

Live & die, ECA, ponds, are of the past.
Get the damn play right is where todays officiating is headed.

Maybe the T went against pre-game and didn't make the held ball call that should have been made so the L judges that A1 voluntarily let the ball drop after being capped?

You said B1 capped the ball. You say the play was up high (above the rim plays). What were you waiting on to determine whether or not is was a held ball?

Perhaps we need to discuss the held ball rule. From what I just read, this is a good defensive play and a travel is the correct call. Merely placing a hand on the ball when the player isn't airborne does NOT equate to a held ball BY RULE.

In your opinion a certain decision was correct or incorrect. I would disagree.

So you are okay erasing a violation, but not a foul? Why? What makes you believe that one can be overturned, but the other can't? What if your partner had called a foul in situation 3, when you could clearly see that the defender's hand was on the ball? Are you going to go offer information to him and tell him that it wasn't a foul?

It seems that you should do what you need to in order to get the assignments that you desire. That is between you and those who assign those contests. For your sake, I hope that they share your judgment and opinions on rules and mechanics. I know several people who don't.

Didn't you say you pregamed for the Lead to lay off above-the-rim plays? If so the play in #1 is not the Lead's call to make, it was yours. So which are we supposed to be going by in judging this play? Go by whose PCA it was or go by what was established in your pre-game? Patient whistle has nothing to do with play #1. Lead saw a player go up with ball and land with the ball. Your overly patient whistle made him look bad.

And again with #3. You say you saw that the official was straight-lined and you say you clearly saw a held ball. Why are you waiting?

Ummm okay, so you dont run the ballgames that are given you? Providing info is FAR from over-ruling, get a grip!
You should still be on a high from your C'Ship! Congrats again btw.

i'm gonna try this once more.

Up close yes, in position with backs and butts, NO!

Pretty thin line between arrogance & confidence... yes, I flirt with the line. But what else would you expect from a flirt?
Thanks for your input all, but I'm done with this, I gotta game to prepare for :D

Don't go yet. Msg #29 needs an answer.

L lay off above the rim play & T be patient on your whistle. I held up my end, he didnt...
On blocked shots, I prefer to give myself a chance to see it clearly before whistling it.

When calling out of my primary I follow the 3 Bs. Be late being #1, gotta give the covering official an opportunity to make the call. If you pop outside your primary immediately, thats a sign of not trusting your partner in my opinion.

I see you ignoring my specific questions and just repeating the mantras.

A1 leaves the floor with ball, A1 returns to floor with ball. How long is Lead supposed to wait to see if his partner has a whistle before he whistles A1 for travelling?

Play #3. B1 causes held ball and it is obvious that responsible official cannot not see the held ball. If you're right with your call who is going to complain that you weren't late enough? You're explanation to the supervisor/observor that you saw your partner was straight-lined should suffice as a reason to come in with a whistle. You're looking over there for a reason, right, to help your partner since nothing is going on in your primary.

Patient late whistles don't apply to every single call. It's great when a player goes to the hole, gets smack on the elbow, the primary official doesn't get it. But what does a late whistle serve on a clear held ball?

tref,
I hope that you take my comments in the spirit of discussion and offering some advice from a colleague who has been able to reach particular levels that you have just noted. (Thanks for your congrats, btw.)

I do think that there is a fine line between "leading a crew"/"running a game" and being overbearing with your partners/doing too much observing outside of your area. You are pushing the envelope in my opinion. Hopefully, my previous posts convey the strength of my thoughts on this, without coming off as belligerent.

I would counsel you to reflect upon possible other ways of thinking and handling such situations. There really isn't one answer to most of this. Officiating is about many things (people management, teamwork, professionalism) and "getting calls right" is only a part of that.

Tref:

:mad: 1989 mind set!! Listen up whippersnapper! I have forgotten more about basketball officiating and still know more than you do about basketball officiating. You do not know the first thing about basketball officiating. You don't know difference between officiating your PCA and officiating Off Ball outside of your PCA. If you and I were on the same officiating crew and you tried to pull that horse manure with me, I would rip you a new tuchus at halftime.

MTD, Sr.

I disagree. If the pull is sufficient to move the opponent, that is enough for a held ball.

Negative sir.
A1 left the floor with the ball, it got capped up top for a second & then came a loose, A1 regained control of the ball then landed. I was passing on a held ball since it was so brief & eventually came a loose anyway. Thought it was a good play on, definitely not a travel by rule.
To answer your question he should've seen the ball come loose & known it was not a travel.

In #3 I was waiting for him to move to improve & I simply allowed him to referee his play.
Honestly I thought this was a great call for the C but since he's of the old school he probably was letting the T live & die with his incorrect call.
Again, I trust my partners until they give me reason not to...
I'm sure I could've found an off ball competitive matchup but since the T left 3 players in the b/c AGAIN, I just happened to catch the held ball as I was watching them.
Hope this answers your questions!

I hear you & appreciate all the input from everyone! Yeah, I listen to all & really try to take away things from peers especially top tier officials.
But for the record, I achieved the same a couple years ago. So I must be doing something right...
I agree that it takes more than merely blowing a whistle to be considered an exceptional official, BUT... getting plays right is first & foremost. Wouldn't you agree?

MTD, Sr. ftw.

1. You never seen me work, so you're assumption of my abilities means nothing to me.
2. I would never be on any court with you as I have already graduated from your brand of basketball.

As for you doing anything to me physically... you really don't want to be labelled as an internt thug, do ya?? If you were talking verbally, I'd simply walk away as I do with most old timers that haven't camped in over a decade :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but LOL @ this...this smacks of a partner that NEVER, EVER wants an official to call in his primary area.

Come on now....we're talking about making violation calls that are close and tough to see from 40 feet away where it is more likely a matter of judgement than a matter of who is right...and I'm going with the guy 10' from the play over the lead who is 40' away and shouldn't even be looking that on a play that is not by any stretch of the imagination an OMG play. If he had come in to get it, we may very well have had another poster writing about a partner who made an AT&T call and got it completely wrong.

Plus, I have a hard time believing the trail was looking at backs and butt on a trap at half court but the lead had a clear view into the play...that seems like the trappers were on the wrong side of the play and the offensive player would have had a clear path to the basket....or the description is not quite accurate.

So...you are going to use Grandma's advice when the crowd boos and moans, but not when a group of officials are on one accord? Interesting.

+1

+1...again

Do you always make decisions or form an opinion based on what everybody else in the gym saw? Using your thinking everybody in the gym should have a whistle since what they see is the correct ruling on plays. Right?

When read after everything else in this thread, I think this sounds kind of arrogant. Did you let him go use the bathroom at halftime?

You may have did something right to get that championship, but if you have been perfect since then you should quit right now.

I think you should have called travel in your first play. Some things should just be called. Keep things simple and this whole situation wouldn't have happened. Now, you could have been surprised and simply missed the jump ball.

In the third play, you didn't answer a question from before: who was watching the other 7 players? Some things you shouldn't see. The fact that you see all of these plays makes me think you may be a ball watcher.

Advancing doesn't always mean an official is the best official. Assignors do not know everything and sometimes choose championship officials based on social factors. Not saying that applies to you, but to simply say you have worked championships doesn't mean...

I would rather see a clip before I'm 100 percent whether the lead should have been looking out there. I could envision a scenario where the lead could be looking out there. From what tref has told us, his partner was glad he got the additional information. Plus the people who assigned him the game said the particular plays were egregious and important enough to where the additional information given on the play was the right thing to do. Obviously, he did something right. And ultimately, the tape will prove whether he was right or not.

I guess I had more of a problem with how MTD responded more than anything. We can debate whether the off-ball official could/should have/or not helped with additional information, but that's exactly what this should be...a discussion. No need to imply incompetence by saying tref has no idea or concept about something as simple as PCA's or officiating off-ball outside one's PCA.

No... but I'd like to think I'm experienced enough to tell the difference between "boo he called a foul on us" & "boo WTf is that"
I'm hoping you do too :)

See above. I know, some people are born with it, others learn it, but there are many signs that just jump out at ya when something just aint right.

No, but I did share with him how he could position adjust to get the A look on that particular play. I also shared with him how we shouldn't call travels based solely on the movement of feet :rolleyes:
And when I completed that convo he was very open & thankful for the insight.

Nope wasnt perfect then & far from it now but I'm better than I was in '10.
Always striving for perfection but I'll settle for excellence.

How can one travel without HOLDING A LIVE BALL INBOUNDS. I think you should re-read the 1st play then holla back.

3rd repost:
Cant find the other post that says the T left 3 players 1 defender & 2 offensive players in the b/c. That’s what I was originally looking in that direction for & just happened to get luck & catch the held ball.
Reading is FUNdamental ;)

That's your opinion, you sir or anyone else are not gonna take that away from me. I got it because I earned it & in year 4 at that. I know that makes people sick but oh phuckin well... I plan on getting more too!

Where is Jurassic when we need him!

Be a man & do it yourself!
Dont be a U2 looking for an R to do your dirty work...

You're assuming we need him. :eek:

Wow...

As one who can tell you flat out that I have worked levels of basketball that you have not made it to, this post right here tells me all I need to know about you.

The attitude expressed in that post will cost you in the future. At some point you will take that attitude toward someone and then find out that they are in a position to cause you grief.

Either lose the attitude, or expect that whatever championship it was that you worked will be the highest level you will make it to.

Disagree with people all you want. Argue rules, mechanics, positioning, call selection, etc., etc. But the BS you spewed in that post WILL hurt you if you don't get it under control and keep it under control.

Wow...

So Mark gets to blast me & quite frankly, threaten me over the internet, but I cannot retort. Okay :rolleyes:

Isnt he the one that posts about 3rd grade games ALL the time??
I simply said I've graduated from his brand of basketball so we wouldn't be on the same court anytime soon. WTF?

Already made it past that C'Ship level the following summer, but thanks anyway :(

Which people is that?

tref, I'm quite sure on the court you and I are very similar in how we call and see plays and what deem is or isn't important in managing a game. And off the court I'm pretty confident you and I probably are a lot alike also.

But when it comes to discussing officiating, you exude complete arrogance. You talk as if every time you learn something new and latch on to it that you are Moses returning from the mountain with a new commandment for the masses to adhere to. And if we question it or disagreed with its validity then there is something wrong with us and we'll be stuck building pyramids for the rest of our existence. Nevermind that we might have heard these "commandants" before or that they are just re-packaged "commandments" with the words moved around or they may not apply to how we are expected to officiate in our venues.

There is more than one way to get to the top. People have risen faster than you without the teachings you have received and people have faltered while receiving the exact same teachings that you receive.

From things you have posted, I know that you have the opportunity to move to higher levels in your career. I offered you some advice and your response is to make excuses and point your finger at other people, and try to downplay the attitude that you exuded in your earlier post.

Like I tried to say before - that crap will come back to bite you if you don't get it under control now.

BNR & rocky, you guys are right!
I'll make the necessary adjustments effective immediately.

Yep, if it seeps out here no doubt it does else where. And there will be a point when there are 5 equally talented candidates competing for 2 spots and then the conservation turns to "well, what kind of feel to you get from ####?, what have you heard about him?" and the boss turns his mentor, the old guy who never sniffed the NBA or a NCAA Final Four but helped guide the boss to where he is today.

You might want to check which Mark you're referring to....there is more than one. And the level of ball a person choose to work doesn't necessarily indicate how good of an official they are. There are other reasons people work games.

As long as Mark (either one) can get down the court, I'd take him any day over some young punk who thinks they're better than all the other officials on the court and that their view of a play is the only view. Officials that constantly "cover" their partner's "misses" eventually find they don't have any partners to work with.

I see what I think are wrong calls by my partners probably every game. Sometimes, with partners I'm comfortable with, I bring it up in post game (or half time). Some of those times, I find out I was wrong...there was an element to the situation I hadn't seen. Sometimes, it is splitting hairs (perhaps deciding whether the player had control or not) and neither is more right than the other. Sometimes I was right...I saw something they didn't see. And, a few times, I'll step in on the court and give them more info.....but it has to be something absolutely necessary before I do.

Editor's note - what is really meant by this sentence is: "And when I completed that convo, instead of rolling his eyes, he pretended to be interested and thankful. He realized he was working with "that guy", and decided to just get through it.

I worked with you a couple of weeks ago. Not YOU you... but you nonetheless. Every association has a "you". Every call on the field/court/gridiron is YOURS - the rest of your crew are just there to assist you and learn from your insight. The worst part is that "you" always leave a game thinking that you've taught your underlings and they thank their lucky stars they've had the opportunity, not realizing that they are leaving the game thinking, "Man, what a tool. I must ask my assignor not to put me with that guy again."

Yeah, THAT...

And tref, I'm not bashing you. I'm just being straight like I would expect from anybody to be with me. Honestly I would hate for you to one day hit a road block or regress, not because you weren't talented enough, but because you rubbed somebody the wrong one way. And often that person is not the one making the decision, but someone the decision-maker trusts and includes in his inner circle. There is a guy here who is reminds me a lot of you. Very talented, on the "radar", has been to D-League camp. Gets plays right and is fun to be around when the fellas are bullsh!tting. But man, he lets that "I wanna be a pro official" attitude seep out a lot, and it's noticeable, both on the court and when we are talking basketball in the locker room. You never know who the guy next to you knows.

My bucket list doesn't include the NBA or D-League or the D1 Final Four, but I do have a "list" of 8 things (5 of which I can cross off), and I know on a few occasions I've rub some folks the wrong way and I have been fortunate that I have had people close to me who have pulled me aside to let me know.

and I appreciate you for that sir!

Right? Maybe...what I do know is this:

You are me a "few" years ago. I cost myself the opportunity to move to "the next level" because I didn't know when to shut the hell up.

If I can help someone else not make that same mistake, I will try to do that.

Less is more, right. Sorry to hear about your mishap but thank you for being man enough to show me where improvement is needed in my communication!

I think he'd put mr smarty pants in his place.

Jurassic was always the voice of reason to me.

APG:

You didn't read what I said. I do not have a problem with a partner who officiates Off The Ball (OfTB) out of his PCA. When there are ten players on the court and the game is being officiated by a Two-Person Crew (TwPC), that type of officiating is very important. But if the OfTB official is a Ball Watcher, then there can and will be problems. I and many other esteemed members of this Forum have stated before, when an official is Ball Watching outside of his PCA, bad things can and will happen.

Tref gives me the vib that he is a Ball Watcher. The Three-Person Crew (ThPC) was created so that there will be times when there will be two eyes On The Ball (OnTB) and four eyes OfTB, and that there will be times when there will be four eyes OnTB and two eyes OfTB. In the latter situation there will one official will be considered the Primary Official OnTB and the other official will be considered the Secondary Official OnTB, and ball and location and where the play started will dictate who is who (or is it whom is what, LOL?); that type of knowledge comes from experience.

MTD, Sr.

Jugs:

I am getting senile. What is "ftw'? If you have to PM with your answer go ahead.

MTD, Sr.

Message to Tref.
 

There is Mark, me (Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., aka MTD, Sr.) and Mark Padgett and everybody addresses as Mark or Padgett when talking to or about Padgett, and when taking to about me, I am addessed as Mark, MTD, Sr., Mark, Sr. (there is a Mark, Jr./MTD, Jr./Junior/Mark that officiates with me and who more often than not has to carry my broken down old tuchus up and down the basketball court, and always takes the Plate when we umpire togehter), "bald old geezer", or "senile bald old geezer".

This school year is my 41st year as a boys'/girls' H.S. (includes Jr. H.S.) basketball official; I started with the 1971-72 school year. I officiated women's college basketball from the 1974 to 2008, and men's college basketball from 1993 to 2008. I was a USA Basketball (that's FIBA Rules) from 1993 to 2003.

I was the first male to officiate women's college basketball in the state of Florida and one of the first to officiate women's college basketball in the Southeast USA, back before you were a twinkle in your old man's eye. I have officiated over 20 Div. I and over 20 jr. coll. women's playoff games. I have officiated over 40 AAU and YBOA Boys' and Girls' National Championship Tournaments including three YBOA Girls' National Championship Games.

I was on the 1999 Officiating Staff for the Special Olympics World Summer Games. And in March I will officiate in my 21st Ohio Special Olympics State Final Four.

Those are my accomplishments on the court. And I have even brought up my friend (and peers) that I have made along the way and what I have tried to give back to the profession off of the court.

When I first started officiating I never thought about where I would end as a basketball official and I never would have dreamed that I would have done what I have done. But I know that I am lucky to have accomplished what I have, because such a small percentage ever get to do what I have done.

So yes, I do get to take a few whacks at your when I read such nonsense. Remember, I am a bald old geezer, and I can get pretty cranky when I get riled up.

MTD, Sr.

ftw = for the win :D

Took me about a year to figure that out

Toren:

Thank you.

MTD, Sr.

I apologize
 

Hey I'll be a man about it. I'm sorry MTD, Sr. I confused you with Padgett. Wont happen again & nice resume btw!! I'd be quite fortunate to achive 1/4th of what you have.

Nice, everyone made up (I'm not being sarcastic). :D

Get a room! :)

Tref:

Apology is accepted. BUT, you had better apologize to Padgett for thinking that I was him. If I know him, he is so distraught about it that he is probably out buying all new officiating clothes for this weekend. I can only hope that he posts pictures of him in his new officiating uniform, ;).

MTD, Sr.

Your credibility just went down. ;)

Snaqs:

Come on, you know that everybody knows that Padgett is the best dressed basketaball official in the world, :p.

MTD, Sr.

Did MTD really type "whippersnapper"? :)

Yes, and it took him two minutes. Good news is it counts as two words, so he's still at one word per minute.

Ok, we don't need Jurassic to wade in on this.....!

Not that it wouldn't fun, though. :D

I really miss the homespun common sense and he could cut to the chase on everything, plus had the right balance of rules application and what was right for a particular situation.