Don't go yet. Msg #29 needs an answer.

L lay off above the rim play & T be patient on your whistle. I held up my end, he didnt...
On blocked shots, I prefer to give myself a chance to see it clearly before whistling it.

When calling out of my primary I follow the 3 Bs. Be late being #1, gotta give the covering official an opportunity to make the call. If you pop outside your primary immediately, thats a sign of not trusting your partner in my opinion.

I see you ignoring my specific questions and just repeating the mantras.

A1 leaves the floor with ball, A1 returns to floor with ball. How long is Lead supposed to wait to see if his partner has a whistle before he whistles A1 for travelling?

Play #3. B1 causes held ball and it is obvious that responsible official cannot not see the held ball. If you're right with your call who is going to complain that you weren't late enough? You're explanation to the supervisor/observor that you saw your partner was straight-lined should suffice as a reason to come in with a whistle. You're looking over there for a reason, right, to help your partner since nothing is going on in your primary.

Patient late whistles don't apply to every single call. It's great when a player goes to the hole, gets smack on the elbow, the primary official doesn't get it. But what does a late whistle serve on a clear held ball?

tref,
I hope that you take my comments in the spirit of discussion and offering some advice from a colleague who has been able to reach particular levels that you have just noted. (Thanks for your congrats, btw.)

I do think that there is a fine line between "leading a crew"/"running a game" and being overbearing with your partners/doing too much observing outside of your area. You are pushing the envelope in my opinion. Hopefully, my previous posts convey the strength of my thoughts on this, without coming off as belligerent.

I would counsel you to reflect upon possible other ways of thinking and handling such situations. There really isn't one answer to most of this. Officiating is about many things (people management, teamwork, professionalism) and "getting calls right" is only a part of that.

Tref:

:mad: 1989 mind set!! Listen up whippersnapper! I have forgotten more about basketball officiating and still know more than you do about basketball officiating. You do not know the first thing about basketball officiating. You don't know difference between officiating your PCA and officiating Off Ball outside of your PCA. If you and I were on the same officiating crew and you tried to pull that horse manure with me, I would rip you a new tuchus at halftime.

MTD, Sr.

I disagree. If the pull is sufficient to move the opponent, that is enough for a held ball.

Negative sir.
A1 left the floor with the ball, it got capped up top for a second & then came a loose, A1 regained control of the ball then landed. I was passing on a held ball since it was so brief & eventually came a loose anyway. Thought it was a good play on, definitely not a travel by rule.
To answer your question he should've seen the ball come loose & known it was not a travel.

In #3 I was waiting for him to move to improve & I simply allowed him to referee his play.
Honestly I thought this was a great call for the C but since he's of the old school he probably was letting the T live & die with his incorrect call.
Again, I trust my partners until they give me reason not to...
I'm sure I could've found an off ball competitive matchup but since the T left 3 players in the b/c AGAIN, I just happened to catch the held ball as I was watching them.
Hope this answers your questions!

I hear you & appreciate all the input from everyone! Yeah, I listen to all & really try to take away things from peers especially top tier officials.
But for the record, I achieved the same a couple years ago. So I must be doing something right...
I agree that it takes more than merely blowing a whistle to be considered an exceptional official, BUT... getting plays right is first & foremost. Wouldn't you agree?

MTD, Sr. ftw.

1. You never seen me work, so you're assumption of my abilities means nothing to me.
2. I would never be on any court with you as I have already graduated from your brand of basketball.

As for you doing anything to me physically... you really don't want to be labelled as an internt thug, do ya?? If you were talking verbally, I'd simply walk away as I do with most old timers that haven't camped in over a decade :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but LOL @ this...this smacks of a partner that NEVER, EVER wants an official to call in his primary area.

Come on now....we're talking about making violation calls that are close and tough to see from 40 feet away where it is more likely a matter of judgement than a matter of who is right...and I'm going with the guy 10' from the play over the lead who is 40' away and shouldn't even be looking that on a play that is not by any stretch of the imagination an OMG play. If he had come in to get it, we may very well have had another poster writing about a partner who made an AT&T call and got it completely wrong.

Plus, I have a hard time believing the trail was looking at backs and butt on a trap at half court but the lead had a clear view into the play...that seems like the trappers were on the wrong side of the play and the offensive player would have had a clear path to the basket....or the description is not quite accurate.

So...you are going to use Grandma's advice when the crowd boos and moans, but not when a group of officials are on one accord? Interesting.

+1

+1...again

Do you always make decisions or form an opinion based on what everybody else in the gym saw? Using your thinking everybody in the gym should have a whistle since what they see is the correct ruling on plays. Right?

When read after everything else in this thread, I think this sounds kind of arrogant. Did you let him go use the bathroom at halftime?

You may have did something right to get that championship, but if you have been perfect since then you should quit right now.

I think you should have called travel in your first play. Some things should just be called. Keep things simple and this whole situation wouldn't have happened. Now, you could have been surprised and simply missed the jump ball.

In the third play, you didn't answer a question from before: who was watching the other 7 players? Some things you shouldn't see. The fact that you see all of these plays makes me think you may be a ball watcher.

Advancing doesn't always mean an official is the best official. Assignors do not know everything and sometimes choose championship officials based on social factors. Not saying that applies to you, but to simply say you have worked championships doesn't mean...