Clean Block or a Foul?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

The first time I saw the Duke highlight above I thought, man that seems to be splitting hairs to call that a block. What did that guy do wrong? I resigned myself to the fact that I just need to look at these plays differently. Then the OP play comes on here and the answers just seem to be so contradictory.

On this play, I don't see a single instant where the defender has gained LGP. He's constantly moving sideways, one way or the other, and twice leans into the shooter (the uncalled first time more blatantly than the called 2nd time, IMHO).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

On this play, I don't see a single instant where the defender has gained LGP. He's constantly moving sideways, one way or the other, and twice leans into the shooter (the uncalled first time more blatantly than the called 2nd time, IMHO).

But he is facing the ball handler so he had to gain LGP.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

On this play, I don't see a single instant where the defender has gained LGP. He's constantly moving sideways, one way or the other, and twice leans into the shooter (the uncalled first time more blatantly than the called 2nd time, IMHO).

He had LGP almost the entire time. Moving has little to do with LGP. The only time, when a player has LGP, that movement becomes illegal is when, at the time of contact, the defender was moving toward the opponent....which is the case in the Duke clip (along with not being vertical...arms extended over opponent).

NFHS quote...but the rules are the same...

The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.

Except for ONE of his steps, they were ALL toward the opponent (one was even followed by a reasonably hard chest bump while offense was not even moving toward the defender yet).

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Except for ONE of his steps, they were ALL toward the opponent (one was even followed by a reasonably hard chest bump while offense was not even moving toward the defender yet).

That contact was incidental and did not gain an advantage. In fact I think the contact went both ways. If the defender would have planted his feet and taken the contact he might have had a chance to draw a player control foul. However he didn't and leaned into the shooter, making contact and creating a clear disadvantage for the shooter. Easy foul call

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Except for ONE of his steps, they were ALL toward the opponent (one was even followed by a reasonably hard chest bump while offense was not even moving toward the defender yet).

LGP may be gained while moving towards the defender. The chest bumps are another story, however, as LGP doesn't give that right to the defender.

[ballgame99]

Good discussion everyone. I have sincerely enjoyed the debate and deserved most jabs thrown at me. I still think the defender committed a foul, but I do at least see the other side of the argument now.

Hope everyone has a good conclusion to their seasons.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by zm1283

All of the Missouri fans here are claiming they were screwed and are using this play as their example. The funny thing is that the Kansas fans claimed they got screwed after they lost in Columbia earlier this season.

Fans are so stupid.

I'm not stupid, thank you very little.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Except for ONE of his steps, they were ALL toward the opponent (one was even followed by a reasonably hard chest bump while offense was not even moving toward the defender yet).

Yes, I agree. But that is not relevant. He still has LGP. The only time forward movement becomes a problem is at the moment of contact. Until then, the direction of movement is not a factor in determining LGP.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by DLH17

I'm not stupid, thank you very little.

The ones complaining about this play in the OP are.

I have still yet to see this foul on Pressey that they are so upset about. He got called for a hand check or a hold against a dribbler that sent a KU player to the line late in OT that sealed the win. The people I have been talking to keep complaining about consistency and how it should have been a no-call on Pressey if this was a no-call. I'm trying to explain to them that plays are judged individually, but I'm sure it will go in one ear and out the other.

Watch this video from the stands and pause at about :58 when Robinson jumps. If that isn't verticality, I don't know what is. (I know the camera is shaky...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRQHMrZOJU

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by zm1283

The ones complaining about this play in the OP are.

I have still yet to see this foul on Pressey that they are so upset about. He got called for a hand check or a hold against a dribbler that sent a KU player to the line late in OT that sealed the win. The people I have been talking to keep complaining about consistency and how it should have been a no-call on Pressey if this was a no-call. I'm trying to explain to them that plays are judged individually, but I'm sure it will go in one ear and out the other.

Watch this video from the stands and pause at about :58 when Robinson jumps. If that isn't verticality, I don't know what is. (I know the camera is shaky...)

The hand-checking foul on the drive was an easy call. The imaginary whistle in my head went off as the play was live on my TV.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, I agree. But that is not relevant. He still has LGP. The only time forward movement becomes a problem is at the moment of contact. Until then, the direction of movement is not a factor in determining LGP.

Exactly.

Peace