Any call?

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No verdict, but I agree with Tony. The official must judge it. Sometimes, that judgement is delayed (or changed) to see what else happens. Sometimes, it's instantaneous.

My judgement (for what it is worth). I did not think it was the start of a dribble, he dropped the ball to keep it from being a violation. It definately wasnt a shot, definately not a pass (only defenders around him).

[BillyMac]

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

BBR,
I understand your point.

In this exact case, where you stated that his intention was to not commit a violation, I dont see your point of stating it is the start of a dribble!
I honestly believe he was trying to not turn the ball over, not starting a dribble. I think he knew he couldnt do anything at that point, other than drop the ball.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bigda65

BBR,
I understand your point.

In this exact case, where you stated that his intention was to not commit a violation, I dont see your point of stating it is the start of a dribble!
I honestly believe he was trying to not turn the ball over, not starting a dribble. I think he knew he couldnt do anything at that point, other than drop the ball.

You understand my point.

You don't see my point of stating it is the start of a dribble.

So which is it, you see my point or you don't?

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You understand my point.

You don't see my point of stating it is the start of a dribble.

So which is it, you see my point or you don't?

ok you got me

I guess I should have just asked you a question.

Would you ever judge his intention to be, to keep from turning the ball over, and not judge a violation? Again, I dont believe his intention was to start a dribble, It was like he knew that that was his only option (to drop the ball) to keep from turning the ball over.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bigda65

ok you got me

I guess I should have just asked you a question.

Would you ever judge his intention to be, to keep from turning the ball over, and not judge a violation? Again, I dont believe his intention was to start a dribble, It was like he knew that that was his only option (to drop the ball) to keep from turning the ball over.

Doubtful.

[Camron Rust]

By rule, it is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands....but we sometimes can't tell unless/until they touch the ball again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

By rule, it is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands, but we sometimes can't tell unless/until they touch the ball again.

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it."

I know it when I see it, and I'm not calling an illegal dribble violation until he touches the ball after it hits the floor.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

By rule, it is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands....but we sometimes can't tell unless/until they touch the ball again.

Tony can always tell.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bigda65

My judgement (for what it is worth). I did not think it was the start of a dribble, he dropped the ball to keep it from being a violation. It definately wasnt a shot, definately not a pass (only defenders around him).

Your options:
Dribble, pass, shot, or fumble. It can't be anything else by rule.

[just another ref]

I would actually be a lot more inclined to wait in this case. Was the original intent of the player to dribble? No. He went up to shoot and was prevented from doing so. His only option was a quick release and hope that a nearby teammate might bail him out. In the other example recently given, a player who has used his dribble obviously forgets, starts a move to the basket by pushing the ball straight to the floor, and the ball is then contacted by a defender. Is this a violation? It definitely is to me.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Tony can always tell.

I can always tell what I'm going to call.

I sure hope you can.